Rotella 10w-30 T4; 11.5k miles; Dmax 53k miles

dnewton3

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Oh, the horror! Well, not really. Not when you understand the use and the conditions ... This most recent UOA has 11.5k miles on it, but the last 2.5k miles were heavy loading. We just got back from an camping/biking vacation trip out west; IN to SD and back. The first day was good travel; averaged over 12+ mpg pulling the RV, and also had the Victory touring bike in the bed. Then ... headwinds; hard, strong and sustained, for the rest of the trip. How bad? Let me show you: day 1 = 12.2 mpg day 2 = 9.2 mpg day 3 = 8.9 mpg day 4 = 9.3 mpg The engine was running around 1200-1300 deg F on the pyrometer constantly, indicating that the load was heavy for hours on end. The max EGT for safe sustained running is 1350F per GM. We tried slowing down a bit, but it really didn't make much difference. Whether you're doing 65mph or 70mph is kind of moot when you're driving into 20+mph constant headwinds, literally all day. So the last 2500 miles of this UOA were essentially near max EGT, meaning that the engine was working HARD for 10+ hours per day. And yet the Fe/1k miles only rose less than 1ppm above macro data averages! My point? The uptick in Fe was not due to the longer OCI; it was load related. In fact, I'd say this is yet more evidence that the Dmax is a very good wearing engine, even under extreme loads. All the other wear metals are a non-issue; always have been, probably always will be. The engine lube was topped off prior to the trip. The engine is now about 2 qts low; near the bottom on the dipstick. So it consumed about 2 qrts over the 2400 miles. That's right in line with GMs oil consumption statement; 1 qrt per 100 gallons under heavy loading. This is based on the overall fuel average of 9.9 mpg applied against 2400 miles; 242 gallons of fuel used. So anything up to 2.4 qrts would be "normal" for oil consumption; I was a tad under that consumption rate. I did not top off prior to this UOA upon our return, so in theory I could have "thinned" the Fe down a little, but chose not to do so. I am debating whether to ride out another year on this OCI; I could "top off" that 2 qrts and run another year. I might FCI, only because the filter is showing signs of significant rust on the exterior; not due to fear of loading the media. Even after 11.5k miles, the insolubles are very low, at .3. Enjoy the data!
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2006 Duramas LBZ
UOA #		7	6	5	4	3	n/a	1	Univ Avg
Date		2017	2014	2013	2012	2011	2010	2009	
grade (dino)	10w-30	10w-30	10W-30	10w-30	10w-30	15w-40	10w-30	
Brand		Rot TP	Rot TP	Rot TP	Rot TP	Rot TP	Dlv1300	Rot TP	
Oil Mileage	11.5k	9.0k	6.5K	3.5k	6.5k	6.5k	6.0k	6.6k
Truck mileage	53.5k	42.0k	39.5	36.5	33.0k	26.5k	20k
Filter		Wix	Wix	Wix	PureOne	Wix	Wix
OCI at UOA?     N       Y       N       N       Y       Y       Y   

Al		3	2	2	1	2	n/a	3	3
Cr		1	1	0	0	1	n/a	0	0
Fe		32	17	12	7	14	n/a	10	14
Cu		4	4	3	2	3	n/a	5	13
Pb		3	2	2	1	5	n/a	2	3
Tn		2	2	0	1	0	n/a	1	1
Molyb		9	3	3	2	14	n/a	2	38
Ni		0	0	0	0	1	n/a	0	0
Manganese	0	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	0
Silv		0	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	0
Ti		4	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	0
Potas		10	8	9	6	11	n/a	13	4
Boron		19	23	25	27	35	n/a	24	105
Silicon		12	13	11	9	11	n/a	11	10
Sodium		5	5	4	5	7	n/a	2	4
Calcium		2330	2409	2326	2232	2336	n/a	2358	2094
Magnesium	156	30	29	26	133	n/a	10	416
Phos		1131	1059	1069	951	1115	n/a	1001	1090
Zn		1319	1183	1205	11831069	1314	n/a	1201	1270
Barium		0	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	0


SUS @ 210F	67.7	65.0	66.1	64.7	67.6	n/a	72.5	58-69
cSt @ 100C	12.35	11.61	11.90	11.54	12.31	n/a	13.6	10-12.5
FP		460	435	425	410	415	n/a	425	>425
Fuel		<.5	<.5	<.5	.5	0	n/a	0	< 2
Antifreeze	0	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	0
Water		0	0	0	0	0	n/a	0	< .5
Insolubles	.3	.2	.3	0.2	0.2	n/a	0.3	< .6
TBN		n/a	7.5	6.7	8.1	n/a	n/a	n/a	n/a
TAN		n/a	4.9	3.0	n/a	n/a	n/a	n/a	n/a
 
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I got the 2.5 gallon jugs on clearance at autozone a month or so ago of the Rotella 10w30. Been running 250 mile oil changes in my Kawasaki Teryx. I was worried a little bit because seems nobody uses 10w30 in utvs.. looks like im probably dumping good oil.
 
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So this is pre-emissions. Would be interesting to see how the report would be if it was a Dmax with all the exhaust extra's installed. This is also why 2007 and older diesels are expensive and hard to find.
 
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dnewton is the poster child for squeaking every mile out of a drop of lubricant! There is no a chance in the world I'll ever have oil in the sump for nearly 12k, for so many reasons. krismoriah, note that DN is running the conventional version of Rotella, and not the AZ stuff so many of us picked up for 5.00 a 2.5 gallon jug (after rebate). Our results may not mimic his.
 

dnewton3

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Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
2006; I will update the post.
The last year without DEF?
No. Well sort of ... it actually changed mid year. Whereas the model year actually changes around July, the legal change over happened in Jan in 2007. Goes like this, I believe: The 2007 OBS (0ld Body Style) used the LBZ. Nothing but EGR. The 2007.5 NBS (New Body Style) used the LMM with has all the added emissions stuff like DPF etc. I cannot assure you I have the dates correct. But I do know that the OBS 2007 models had the LBZ. The NBS 2007 models got the LMM.
 
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More evidence that most oil is underutilized. DN is also the poster child of the "less-is-more" philosophy. If you can do this with "ordinary" conventionals, what happens when you go to the higher shelf oils?
 
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Michigan
Curious what oil pressure numbers you are seeing after the engine is heat soaked? With Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 my LLY shows around 20 psi (on my scangage reading the ECM input)
 
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That looks just fine, Dave. Don't get me started on the subject of high winds...they are a menace in a tractor trailer. I get amazing fuel economy in my big truck when the wind isn't blowing too bad, but as you say, it makes a large vehicle work much harder and thus gulp lots of fuel. Thanks for the continuing data. Just for fun, I will suggest leaving that oil in until your next big haul and put in a fresh fill before you hit the road. whistle
 
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
Think the oil is thickening somewhat? Oxidation numbers would be interesting on this run, to see if the hard work hurt the oil any? (I know, like preaching Catholic dogma to the Pope!) ontome
 

dnewton3

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Originally Posted By: 64bawagon
Curious what oil pressure numbers you are seeing after the engine is heat soaked? With Mobil 1 TDT 5W40 my LLY shows around 20 psi (on my scangage reading the ECM input)
I have only the dash gauge. When hot at idle, it's a hair under 30psi. The rpm will dictate the rise. At 1600 rpm (lowest rated peak torque value) it's running 65mph and has oil pressure around 35"ish" or a tad more. Once up around 2000 rpm it will move past 40 to near 45psi. All this is via the GM dash gauge calibration, so I cannot comment how accurate it is. Whatever the true value, it's not hurting the wear rates ...
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Just for fun, I will suggest leaving that oil in until your next big haul and put in a fresh fill before you hit the road.
Seriously considering leaving the oil in there, topping off the 2 qrts, changing the filter (due to rust) and running it out another year!
Originally Posted By: CT8
I would be fun to duplicate the oil run with 15W-40 oil.
Yes - that was actually part of the longer term plan. My goal 10 years ago was to prove that thinner dino lubes do every bit as well in modern diesels as the 15w-40s and syns in moderate duration OCIs. I think I've pretty much proved that beyond any reasonable argument. Next I'd like to run some cheaper house-brand lubes, perhaps in 15w-40, and do the same experiment. What I'm trying to prove to people is that the normal everyday products we have offer FAR, FAR more capability than most give them credit for. That, and brand/grade don't have nearly the effect that marketing hype would lead us to believe. Read through a lot of the posts here on this site. MOST of the "information" here isn't information at all; it's mythology and rhetoric whipped up into opinions. I take a different approach ... I cherish real data; real facts. I first develop a hypothesis. I then create a test methodology. I will enact said methodology. I next analyze results. I finally am able to make a reasonable, informed conclusion. No one "needs" thick lubes, synthetic lubes or BP filtration in a Dmax truck, even when you repeadedly harangue the engine mercilessly during an extended OFCIs. My data shows that my experiences are completely in-line with hundreds of other UOAs, some of which use those expensive products and get no better results.
 

dnewton3

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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Think the oil is thickening somewhat? Oxidation numbers would be interesting on this run, to see if the hard work hurt the oil any? (I know, like preaching Catholic dogma to the Pope!) ontome
Blackstone does not do "oxidation", but the insolubles count is quite low, at .3, given the use and conditions. Their insolubles is a characteristic that includes both oxidation and soot, as measured against set/known visual standards. I don't know that it's "thickening", as it was in grade. One could argue that it's both thinning via shearing the VIIs and also thickening via soot/ox, but to what degree no one would ever know how much of each was a contributor. OTOH - I ask this ... Who cares and why? Is there any evidence that wear is affected? Not to my eyes. And let's not forget that oxidation due to heat has been shown in SAE studies to be a contributor in developing the beneficial TCB. Grotesque oxidation bad. Some oxidation good. If it does not affect wear negatively, it's moot.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Next I'd like to run some cheaper house-brand lubes, perhaps in 15w-40, and do the same experiment. What I'm trying to prove to people is that the normal everyday products we have offer FAR, FAR more capability than most give them credit for. That, and brand/grade don't have nearly the effect that marketing hype would lead us to believe.
I have a 1995 Chevy K3500 (454/7.4) with 272,000 miles - use no oil I also have a 1999 Suzuki VZ800 Marauder with 84,000 miles Both have been run all their life on the cheapest 15W-40 oil (that still met "current" specs) and have lasted just fine.
 
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I'm not so sure your oil strategy is working that well. Your OCIs are quite short, averaging about 5400mi. Despite that, you show significant levels of lead and some slight elevations of tin, implying bearing wear even in these short OCIs. Also 3 very short OCIs show about 5% shearing, assuming starting 100 deg vis of ~12.2-12.4. The rise in FP and relative thickening (or lack of shearing) in the last "hard and long" OCI might be from oxidation of the base oil - meaning you'd better change it. I am not predicting any imminent failure, unless you leave the existing charge of oil in and tow hard for another few thousand miles. Could these issues be partly related to the small sump size of 10qt = 9.5L? What is the recommended OCI for the Duramax of your vintage? Charlie
 

dnewton3

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I realize it may not be clear at first look. Let me make it so. I can see how you interpret it that way, though. Not your fault, Charlie. When I put "oil mileage", that represents the miles since last UOA, not since last OCI. I went in and modified the code text to now show the OCIs. UOA #1 and #3 are each based on a singular OCI = UOA. (6k and 6.5k miles) UOA #4, #5, #6 are all the same OCI, sequentially taken, year over year. (3.5k, 3.0k, 2.5k = 9k miles) UOA #7 (this latest) is a collective of three year duration (no UOAs in between = 11.5k miles) The wear metals are quite fine; well within "normal" patterns and statistical sigmas. There is no problem with Pb, Tn, Cu, Al or even Fe. Totally within expected wear rates. I would know; I have over 550 UOAs for Dmax engines. There is an IOLM; typically will generate an OCI message around 9k-10k miles or so. Because it will signal an OCI in-between my stragegic UOAs, I just reset it and ignore it. I've never run an OCI at 5400 miles, ever. I'm confident of my strategy, and there's nothing wrong here. Nothing whatsoever.
 
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dnewton3

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Yes - that's another $20 for information that is essentially moot. I've seen many multiples of TAN/TBN crossver, and wear rates were never affected. In really long OCI extensions, it might be worthwhile. But not for my exposure duration. If you look, I had taken a few and there's no correlation between those "risks" and wear rates. I'm done paying for information that has no value to me.
 
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