Rode a Zero SR yesterday (with 12.5 battery)

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: ctrlburn
It is expensive for the function - (but so are 95% of cell phones and they sell in droves) I think prices will drop and range will go up. I commute 50 miles round trip with a easy 20-30 miles for for excursions as needed. It is not a weekend tour bike - but day to day it commutes with a charge from my wall socket at a rate of about 4-5 minutes per mile and be ready every morning. Faster charging is an upgrade to nearly charge in an hour is available $$$.


Glad you joined to post your info. I'm absolutely in love with the Zero SR. While you say it's expensive for the function, I'm thinking it's not that far off. The SR is an amazing motorcycle, with incredible performance. So is the Ducati Monster. Both are priced similarly, and both really do compete with each other.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Who is doing all of this? Is it Silicon Valley making improvements every year?


It is nice having instant Internet speed, an iPhone that does it all.....and now this?!?!?


Tis is really neat stuff. I hope California and whoever/wherever else that is working in technology keeps up the good work. It is nice having nice things, made from good materials that just plain works good- costs a little to a fair amount-and lasts. Besides some of the stuff I find at harbor freight and Walmart, it looks like we are headed out of this throw away society and now garner quality goods that last and cost less in the long run.



Electric transportation and LED lighting are very interesting technologies that I enjoy seeing progress year to year. With all this good going on,why is it that the automobile industry has just plain been disappointing for the last 10 years.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
I enjoy seeing progress year to year. With all this good going on,why is it that the automobile industry has just plain been disappointing for the last 10 years.


I can't answer that. One thing is clear, manufacturers don't produce many "fun" and inexpensive cars. EPA regs and Safety regs often get the blame. However, I'm not buying it. What's to prevent a company like Mazda from installing one of their bigger V6 (ford based) engines in the Miata MX5? The car meets requirements, and so does the engine. No reason such a car should be expensive.

Same goes for Toyota/Subaru BRZ. It's cool, but there are no "fun" big engine options.

Can you imagine an S2000 type car with an Acura 3.2 V6, well tuned? 350HP with high revving Vtec performance.

If you don't like the Mustang, Camaro or Corvette, your powerful sports car options are limited.

One thing about the "electrics". They really can tune them to be incredibly fun. Without any EPA restrictions. That liter bike torque you like so much, it's there. That instant throttle response of a well tuned, 4 valve big V-Twin, it's there too. That mile wide torque curve of the ZX14, all there.

No engine warm up required!

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: Cujet


One thing about the "electrics". They really can tune them to be incredibly fun. Without any EPA restrictions. That liter bike torque you like so much, it's there. That instant throttle response of a well tuned, 4 valve big V-Twin, it's there too. That mile wide torque curve of the ZX14, all there.


well, yes and no.
yes you can have it...for a short time. that zx14 feel, sure, but not for a constant 1hr
to make the I35 run from austin to dallas like the real zx14 can. 5mins sure, 10 maybe, 20min nope. full amp drain the batteries just does not last. new inventions/breakthroughs are needed in that area. yes its is way better than every before in history, but not near what is needed to compare electric to gasoline.

 

[FastGame]

We will see shortly where this electric stuff is headed and how fast it will become main stream. Detroit Auto show will unveil the new Chevy Volt that's said to have big increase in range, power, much lower charge time over the currant Volt.

So for maybe 10 min. the new Volt can get it on like the new Shelby Mustang ?

I can see it now, in a few short years this forum will change its name to Bob Is The Fuse Guy....haha

 

[sunruh]

Originally Posted By: FastGame

So for maybe 10 min. the new Volt can get it on like the new Shelby Mustang ?


hahaha

the new shelby mustang - gt350 is NOTHING like the older gt500.
100hp less on the new one. so maybe.
volt vs gt500 NOT EVEN CLOSE

 

[ctrlburn]

The Mitsubishi MiEV Evolution III EV completed the Pikes Peak challenge in 9:08, over 40 seconds faster than the previous year's EV record.

Electric Motorcycles - Overall fastest Modified 2013 Lightning Electric Superbike finished in a hair over 10 seconds, just 2 seconds slower than the 2013 Kawasaki Ninja ZX-10R - across classes.


Electrics improved 20-40 seconds over previous year - next year would dominate.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: sunruh

well, yes and no.
yes you can have it...for a short time. that zx14 feel, sure, but not for a constant 1hr
to make the I35 run from austin to dallas like the real zx14 can. 5mins sure, 10 maybe, 20min nope.


I know there is an entire culture of bikers who regularly operate their motorcycles at well over double the speed limit. I'm not among them. Sorry, but those speeds are downright uncomfortable and really not that much fun.

The Zero SR has a top speed (RPM/gearing/controller) limited to 102MPH. Since I never go that fast, I don't care. I'd prefer the awesome acceleration located exactly at the speeds I ride.

And, before someone makes the comparisons to the performance of various Harley Davidson products, they are not even in the same performance league. The Zero is 400% more responsive.

However, you are 100% correct, a 12,500 watt hour battery can only produce about 13 real world HP for an hour. That's not much when continuous output is required. It only works well because most motorcycle riders don't need continuous high output.

It would be silly to say the Zero SR is just a city or commuter bike though. It's clearly capable of all around use. I'll ask my friend what he finds it capable of.

 

[sunruh]

i've only been double the limit once. a 930turbo and i made short work of a section on I10 between Columbus and Katy, TX. the expansion joints were going by as fast as i could blink. i finally let him go i ran out of adrenaline (or maybe clean pants).

at 13hp could you make the typical 3hr run from austin to dallas?
any street bike can do that. 3hrs at 70mph+ (some parts are posted 75mph).
to be an all around bike you have to go from 1 major city to the next on an interstate. austin to dallas. dallas to okc. okc to wichita. wichita to kc. kc to columbia, colubmia to stlouis. with a 10-15min stop in each. thats an all around bike. othewise you are a city commute bike only - like the nissan leaf car.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Quote my favorite Physicist Dr Richard Muller...

Gasoline has 83 times more energy per pound than expensive lithium-ion
computer batteries have. The batteries in the most famous electric
car, the Tesla Roadster, would cost $132,000 if you bought them at the
current retail cost for computer batteries. But Tesla gives a
discount.

You can determine the energy density of 0 a lithium-ion battery by
weighing it and reading its label. My computer battery weighs one
pound, cost me $120, and, according to the label, stores 60 watt-hours
of energy. That means an energy density of 60 watt-hours per pound,
and a cost of $2 per watt-hour. In contrast, a pound of gasoline has
an energy of about 5,000 watt-hours, or about 83 times more than the
battery. Of course, the battery can be recharged, but your gas tank
can be refilled. The salient point is that for the same energy stored,
batteries must weigh a lot more. Batteries do have an important
advantage: electric energy can be used about 5 times more efficiently
than gasoline. So in reality, you don't need 83 times more pounds of
battery than gasoline, but only 16 times more. The Tesla Roadster, the
most famous of the new electric cars, carries 1,100 pounds
of batteries-more than half a ton-making up about 44% of the total
weight of the car. At a retail price of $120 per pound of battery,
that would be $132,000 just for the batteries alone. The cost per mile
of travel in an electric car comes not from refueling, but from
replacing the batteries, which are guaranteed for only 100,000 miles.
Tesla says it will replace dead batteries (they have a calendar life
of about 3 years) for less than $30,000. But that's still nearly
$10,000 per year just for batteries! Thinking of converting your Prius
to a plug-in? The same problem-expensive batteries that demand
frequent replacement- plagues plug-in hybrids. A recent analysis by
Consumers Union showed that after 3 years of operation, you will have
saved $2,000 in gasoline costs, but you'll have to pay $10,000 to
replace the batteries. (I own a Prius and will not be converting it to
a plug-in.) No wonder most of us are still driving gasoline-powered
cars.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Quote my favorite Physicist Dr Richard Muller...

Gasoline has 83 times more energy per pound than expensive lithium-ion
computer batteries have.

an energy density of 60 watt-hours per pound,
and a cost of $2 per watt-hour. In contrast, a pound of gasoline has
an energy of about 5,000 watt-hours, or about 83 times more than the
battery.


Those numbers are not quite accurate. As gasoline contains well over 6000 watt hours per pound.

Also, Lithium batteries in the Chevy Volt are rated at 140 w/h per KG (63 w/h lb) . However, only about 75% of that capacity is used, and there are additional weight factors such as cooling and mounting.

Remember that gasoline's energy is not efficiently converted into motive power. Let's use 30% as an absolute upper max.

Chevy is now hinting at upcoming 400 WH/KG batteries. That would compete rather well with gasoline. And it's well within the realm of theoretical possibilities to have a 600 WH/KG battery. Such a battery would give the Tesla Model S well over 1000 miles range.

 

[ctrlburn]

The 2015 Zero SR has 106 ft-lbs of torque.
The 2015 Zero SR weights 452 lbs at curb.
0.23 lb.-ft/lb

Compare:
https://rideapart.com/articles/12-high-torque-motorcycles
The 2014 KTM 1290 Super Duke R makes 106 lb.-ft. (rpm figures unreleased). That’s more than pretty much every super-sport available, all without a fairing or tucked riding position. Absolutely mental. At only 446 pounds (wet), the all-new Super Duke has a torque/weight ratio of 0.24 lb.-ft./lb.

The Zero SR has that torque everywhere in the powerband, not at just an undisclosed rpm.

I ride a "2013 Zero S" and it has about half the engine (68 torques) of the SR - which is plenty for my "Rural to Urban Commute" - with battery rated to 309,000 miles before loss of 20% capacity.

Comparison to gasoline on power per pound is one thing - compare to gasoline in CO2 per mile (including charging power source - if it is not an older Chinese coal plant)) and EV wins.

Compare to gasoline on time to manufacture - 300,000 years to build gasoline. Just overnight to charge my battery - and EV wins again.