RLI BioSyn 0w-30, 10762 mi, 1997 Integra Type-R

[d00df00d]

This is from my brother's car. I'm ninja-posting it without telling him. Maybe he'll find out and chime in. Or maybe he'll yell at me. Who knows.

The car is a '96 Acura Integra with a '97 Japanese-spec Type R engine (B18C Spec R). Totally stock inside; short-ram intake and full head-back exhaust outside. Stock tune. Amsoil EaAU air filter (something like 30k-40k miles old at the time of the sample), Mobil 1 oil filter, and a magnetic drain plug.

Driving is mostly mild on suburban roads with a few highway trips each week. On the rare occasions when it is driven hard, it sees all 8600 RPM and full throttle every time.

Oil consumption seemed to be around 1 qt/2000 miles and dropping.

Results are pretty dang good for an oil that is designed more for low drag than for extended drains (starting TBN is something like 6). We re-filled with the same oil, so we expect results and consumption to improve as the chemistry settles in -- not to mention that RLI has tweaked the formulation, so the oil itself is even better this time around. If he can get a tune or otherwise fix the fuel dilution, we will likely attempt a 15k mile OCI on this oil.

Previous UOAs (from Blackstone so not directly comparable):
Motul 8100 X-Lite 0w-30
GC
Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w-40

 

[BrianEM]

In case anyone would find it useful, there were two longer trips on this oil...one ~1100-mile trip to Toronto and back (majority highway, little bit of around town), and one trip to the Dragon (Deal's Gap, Tail of the Dragon, whatever you wanna call it)...results of the latter trip: 5 days, 1,891 miles, ~15 lengths driven of the Dragon, and about 2L of oil burned. Keep in mind, that when the road's clear of slow sightseers, for me it's 11+ miles of balls-out, 5000-8600rpm, 2nd-3rd gear, WOT, VTEC awesomeness...so that 2L I consumed was almost entirely from the ~500 miles of non-highway driving. I would almost count it as one mild track weekend on the oil...

As Justin said, I'm running the same oil again with the same type of oil filter, so I'll do another ~10.7k interval just to match this one so I can compare numbers then use the same oil again just with an Amsoil oil filter (hopefully I can find a nice oversize one that fits...) and hopefully for a longer interval, something more like 12-13k miles.

 

[Johnny]

What was the time interval on this oil change?

 

[Scienceman]

Looks pretty good!

 

[dkryan]

d00df00d:

Are you sure the starting TBN is 6?

 

[BrianEM]

Johnny, ah yes forgot that too. The oil was run for just over 5 months.

Oh, and actual total consumption was 5 liters.

 

[hate2work]

I know this has been addressed before, but it sticks out like a sore thumb to me.....How can any meaningful conclusions be drawn from a sample that has seen so much oil added along the way? Adding a qt of oil every 2k miles is like an entire extra oil change.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: dkryan
d00df00d:

Are you sure the starting TBN is 6?

Roughly. Apparently Terry Dyson's own testing says 5.5.

 

[BrianEM]

hate2work, you have to realize that when oil burns, it's not like just draining that amount of oil. Only portions of the oil are burned off, which leaves you with odd left-overs. So as oil burns and you top off, yeah you're adding nice new oil, but you still have those not-so-desirable left-overs building up over time.

I'm sure someone else could give a more technical description, but I'm hoping this will clear some of the confusion up

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: hate2work

I know this has been addressed before, but it sticks out like a sore thumb to me.....How can any meaningful conclusions be drawn from a sample that has seen so much oil added along the way? Adding a qt of oil every 2k miles is like an entire extra oil change.


This probably deserves its own thread, as well as input from a better informed person than I.

Here's my understanding, in short:

1. A UOA doesn't show you total wear. It shows you a wear profile that represents a snapshot in time; as new wear particles enter the solution, some will leave the solution. This is one reason why the numbers climb quickly when the oil is fresh, and then level off later. Thus, when some oil is removed and replaced, the numbers should return roughly to their original values in short order.

2. Burning oil is not the same as draining it. Draining it just takes the whole oil out of the system. Burning it usually leaves stuff behind (e.g. combustion byproducts, low-volatility ingredients in the oil, etc.). Accordingly, when you top off after you've burned some oil, what's in the sump is not quite the same as fresh oil. That's why huge oil consumption and top-off don't produce the same results as an oil change, and why the chemical properties of the oil (e.g. what you see in the bottom row of tests in the above UOA) are still meaningful to look at.

 

[demarpaint]

Doesn't the added oil replenish the add pack a bit, and boost TBN? That can make an oil look better that it really is. Which IMO is why looking at UOA's to decide on an oil and trying to figure out if an oil is going to work as well/or bad as it did in someone else's application is not a good idea? It can give a false sense of security.

I'm just trying to learn, thanks!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the added oil replenish the add pack a bit, and boost TBN?

Yes. And burning oil stresses the add pack and depletes the TBN.

 

[pcfxer]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the added oil replenish the add pack a bit, and boost TBN?

Yes. And burning oil stresses the add pack and depletes the TBN.


His uoa represents his USAGE for the given interval, the ops brother is not comparing oils in this instance and is only adjusting his interval. Also remember that all engines burn oil.

Ps, I enjoyed the vtec awesomeness line.

 

[CATERHAM]

Good report, though most Honda's are easy on motor oil.

I find it interesting that the K40 vis increased about 5 % while the K100 vis dropped about 5 % with a resulting very large drop in VI from 193 to 169.
This oil's cold start performance has taken a dive by the end of the OCI.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Doesn't the added oil replenish the add pack a bit, and boost TBN?

Yes. And burning oil stresses the add pack and depletes the TBN.


I would think it would stess the add pack only if it wasn't topped up in a timely manor. I top up when I'm down about half a pint [approx every 1,000 miles], so the add pack wouldn't be stressed much. Now if I waited until I was down a qt it would probably stress it more.

 

[d00df00d]

I didn't say running low on oil stresses the oil. I said burning oil stresses it -- in other words, whatever causes the oil to be consumed creates problems that stick around even if you top off. Read my more detailed reply above.

 

[demarpaint]

I can read

How would oil slipping past stem seals, or guides for example stress oil? The oil is still being burnt, consumed, used. What problems would be sticking around? The bi-products would be there, some consumed with the oil being burnt, especially since they were floating around in the mix. The engine isn't consuming clean oil only, leaving the bi-products in the engine. It is consuming oil and what ever is mixed in it at the time. At least how I'm visualizing it.

I'm asking in an attempt to learn, not dump on RLI oil, so please understand that. Having 5 qts of oil in an engine designed for 6 qts of oil would be stressing the oil since the engine would be low on oil. Topping up when the oil is down 8-10 ounces vs down a qt will stress it less. At least the way I see it. Now adding fresh clean oil is a positive thing.

 

[d00df00d]

Tell you what: make another thread on this topic and PM me a link.

 

[demarpaint]

Sounds good!

 

[webfors]

Good report! However, as already mentioned I wouldn't put faith in TBN retention with that much top up, regardless of the how we want to interpret the effects of oil consumption. You could probably go 20k miles if a quart every 2k is added.

I love those high rev'ing vtecs... pure adrenaline!