RL 5W-30 used as Mo additive in 5W-40 Euro Oils

[jurko]

I have 3 different (VW 502.00) 5W-40 Euro Oils in stash I use my Golf. None of those oils contain any Mo.
Is tungsten disulphide used instead of Mo in some oils as anti-friction additive and therefore no Mo needed?

Golf takes 6QT of oil. Would it be ok to mix 5QT 5W-40 and 1QT of RL 5W-30 to add some Mo or would I completely upset the chemical balance and make things worse?
Thanks.

Interesting read.
Tungsten disulfide nanoparticles as lubricant additives for the automotive industry

 

[edyvw]

RL in general said it is non issue, but mixing with other grades from RL line up. Not sure what would be final product here. All those oils in itself are quality products, so not sure why?

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, Tungsten is used as an alternative to moly in Ravenol, don't mix it.

 

[jurko]

RL in general said it is non issue, but mixing with other grades from RL line up. Not sure what would be final product here. All those oils in itself are quality products, so not sure why?

The "Why" would be due to lack of Mo but I am aware of many quality oils not having Mo as you point out.
Since they are completely different oils so it made me question this whole idea but I thought I'll ask.
Thanks edyvw.

 

[jurko]

Yes, Tungsten is used as an alternative to moly in Ravenol, don't mix it.

Thanks OVERKILL

 

[jurko]

Yes, Tungsten is used as an alternative to moly in Ravenol, don't mix it.

OVERKILL,
Does tungsten disulphide (WS2) has lower coefficient friction than MoDTC and such oils would be considered higher quality and therefore command higher price?
Or is there much more to it than that such as VM's content and quality and also base oil quality (viscosity)?

 

[wpod]

Yes, Tungsten is used as an alternative to moly in Ravenol, don't mix it.

Why?

 

[OVERKILL]

OVERKILL,
Does tungsten disulphide (WS2) has lower coefficient friction than MoDTC and such oils would be considered higher quality and therefore command higher price?
Or is there much more to it than that such as VM's content and quality and also base oil quality (viscosity)?

Tungsten is a more expensive additive than moly and only appears to be used in higher tier oils, from what I've seen. I don't know if it is any more effective, but it is used in place of, not in conjunction with moly.

And yes, Ravenol uses premium base oils as well, hence the ridiculously low Noack and extremely good CCS and MRV figures.

 

[OVERKILL]

Why?

Because it's used in place of moly and I expect if there was an advantage of using it complimentarily we would see that done, since Tungsten is more expensive. But we don't, which I expect at minimum means there's no advantage in doing so and of course mixing a non-API approved lubricant in this case with an oil clearly formulated wildly differently would pose no benefit under the best case scenario and would more likely reduce its performance.

Ravenol is not a lubricant that is blended "on the cheap". If there is a component they've chosen not to include, there's a reason for that. Redline white bottle is very much an "old school" blended oil with a ton of old-style (not tri-nuclear) moly. The only thing these two oils have in common is that they both use PAO as their primary base oil. It's like mixing Johnny Walker Blue with a premium vintage red wine, both are excellent in their own rights and both are alcoholic beverages, but that's about where the similarities end and putting them together is not going to result in a better product than either of them on their own.

 

[demarpaint]

Because it's used in place of moly and I expect if there was an advantage of using it complimentarily we would see that done, since Tungsten is more expensive. But we don't, which I expect at minimum means there's no advantage in doing so and of course mixing a non-API approved lubricant in this case with an oil clearly formulated wildly differently would pose no benefit under the best case scenario and would more likely reduce its performance.

Ravenol is not a lubricant that is blended "on the cheap". If there is a component they've chosen not to include, there's a reason for that. Redline white bottle is very much an "old school" blended oil with a ton of old-style (not tri-nuclear) moly. The only thing these two oils have in common is that they both use PAO as their primary base oil. It's like mixing Johnny Walker Blue with a premium vintage red wine, both are excellent in their own rights and both are alcoholic beverages, but that's about where the similarities end and putting them together is not going to result in a better product than either of them on their own.

Good analogy. That Johnny Walker red wine mix sounds like it might result in one wicked hangover! No thanks.

 

[RooflessVW]

I like the JW Blue : Redline analogy. Both are marketed very well and neither are typically bought by people that know what they're talking about. Both are expensive just because.

 

[kschachn]

Because it's used in place of moly and I expect if there was an advantage of using it complimentarily we would see that done, since Tungsten is more expensive. But we don't, which I expect at minimum means there's no advantage in doing so and of course mixing a non-API approved lubricant in this case with an oil clearly formulated wildly differently would pose no benefit under the best case scenario and would more likely reduce its performance.

Ravenol is not a lubricant that is blended "on the cheap". If there is a component they've chosen not to include, there's a reason for that. Redline white bottle is very much an "old school" blended oil with a ton of old-style (not tri-nuclear) moly. The only thing these two oils have in common is that they both use PAO as their primary base oil. It's like mixing Johnny Walker Blue with a premium vintage red wine, both are excellent in their own rights and both are alcoholic beverages, but that's about where the similarities end and putting them together is not going to result in a better product than either of them on their own.

"Oh but I saw/ran a $30 spectrographic analysis on the oil and I saw that Mo was missing so I wanted to fix that by adding some."

 

[Popsy]

"Oh but I saw/ran a $30 spectrographic analysis on the oil and I saw that Mo was missing so I wanted to fix that by adding some."

Please. Wix analysis kits are half that price, I'm not Cresus!
/joke

 

[jurko]

I found two different VOA's for Ravenol VST 5W-40
This one is from June, 2017 by member agpatel with Mo1

This one is from November, 2018 from oil club de and has Mo124, so something changed.

 

[2EHA]

forget mos2 and ws2, when are we gonna get us2

 

[OVERKILL]

I found two different VOA's for Ravenol VST 5W-40
This one is from June, 2017 by member agpatel with Mo1
View attachment 53847

This one is from November, 2018 from oil club de and has Mo124, so something changed.
View attachment 53848

I posted a VOA for the SSL back in 2019:

Moly at 3 is within "noise" level for a UOA/VOA, so it's safe to say it has none.

 

[OVERKILL]

I found two different VOA's for Ravenol VST 5W-40
This one is from June, 2017 by member agpatel with Mo1
View attachment 53847

This one is from November, 2018 from oil club de and has Mo124, so something changed.
View attachment 53848

I recall, from my SSL thread, that they did some reformulation. The SSL oil previous had moly, and then the newer version had none. So I'm not sure if they just completely switched away from moly to tungsten or how that went, but as I noted, it's not something I'd personally mess with as the oil has been tested "as is" to pass all the approvals it has.

 

[jurko]

I recall, from my SSL thread, that they did some reformulation. The SSL oil previous had moly, and then the newer version had none. So I'm not sure if they just completely switched away from moly to tungsten or how that went, but as I noted, it's not something I'd personally mess with as the oil has been tested "as is" to pass all the approvals it has.

Appreciated, thanks

 

[TiGeo]

Liquimoly Molygen 5W40 uses both Mo (not a whole lot) and W. VOA:

 

[ofelas]

Please. Wix analysis kits are half that price, I'm not Cresus!
/joke

In contrast to Cresus, Croesus likely went for spectrograph analysis + Dyson goodness, every 100 miles or so.