RIP Tom Clancy

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Well, Tom Clancy believed it himself. Does it make him a nutjob too?

Quote:

In the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, Tom Clancy commented on CNN about the very close similarity between the events in the novel and those attacks.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_of_Honor

Like any high school student... always check your sources. The article/commentary attributed to that blurb in Wikipedia was written by Michael DiMercurio. Mr. DiMercurio's commentary doesn't include any transcript of Clancy's comments, doesn't quote him directly, and contains little context beyond what he feels applies to his article. The entire Wikipedia "reference" to Clancy is DiMercurio paraphrasing what he remembered Tom Clancy saying 5 years earlier on CNN. That said, DiMercurio was making the point that 9/11 was blamed in some small part to the government's "lack of imagination" in thinking that a terrorist would fly a plane into a building. He added the CNN/Clancy reference to note that, no, it wasn't a lack of imagination... Tom Clancy already imagined something similar. DiMercurio made no allusion that Clancy thought "the 9/11 idea should be credited to him."

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer

Like any high school student... always check your sources. The article/commentary attributed to that blurb in Wikipedia was written by Michael DiMercurio. Mr. DiMercurio's commentary doesn't include any transcript of Clancy's comments, doesn't quote him directly, and contains little context beyond what he feels applies to his article. The entire Wikipedia "reference" to Clancy is DiMercurio paraphrasing what he remembered Tom Clancy saying 5 years earlier on CNN. That said, DiMercurio was making the point that 9/11 was blamed in some small part to the government's "lack of imagination" in thinking that a terrorist would fly a plane into a building. He added the CNN/Clancy reference to note that, no, it wasn't a lack of imagination... Tom Clancy already imagined something similar. DiMercurio made no allusion that Clancy thought "the 9/11 idea should be credited to him."

What a change in tone! No talk about nutjob anymore? Where is your own reference Mr High School teacher? No worry, I found it for you:

Quote:

Later, 9/11 came to be blamed on a "failure of imagination." Government agencies and officials couldn't imagine a time-on-target suicide attack being so successful, and no one wondered what would happen if airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center. But fiction authors did. Late in CNN's morning coverage, author Tom Clancy was asked about the events of the day. At first, I wondered if CNN were truly desperate, asking a fiction writer to comment on the catastrophe, but Clancy gave the best and most cogent analysis of anyone on the air that morning. He mentioned that one of his novels depicted a hijacked jumbo crashing into the Capitol during a joint session of Congress, decapitating the government. Maybe Osama likes Tom Clancy novels.

Michael DiMercurio goes on even further:

Quote:

I ran into this phenomenon of fiction writers being out front myself. One of my novels, written before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, described a cruise missile with a nuclear "dirty bomb" as its warhead launched by a submarine belonging to a uniting dictator of a pan-Islamic West-hating organization called the United Islamic Front of God. The Islamic dictator was called "The Sword of Islam" and carried a dagger in the belt of his robes. Just like our pal Osama later did. The target of the dirty bomb was Washington, D.C. It was chilling to get an email from a U.S. Army soldier stating that this novel was found in one of Saddam Hussein's palaces. It was apparently well-read and dog-eared.

It's sad that are own fiction writers give some good ideas to the terrorists how to best hurt us.

 

[supton]

Bah. Anyone with an imagination can come up with new and exciting ways to do carnage. Clancy had a couple of novel, albeit far fetched, ideas. Well, that and a lot of good writing.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Quote:

But fiction authors did. Late in CNN's morning coverage, author Tom Clancy was asked about the events of the day. At first, I wondered if CNN were truly desperate, asking a fiction writer to comment on the catastrophe, but Clancy gave the best and most cogent analysis of anyone on the air that morning. He mentioned that one of his novels depicted a hijacked jumbo crashing into the Capitol during a joint session of Congress, decapitating the government. Maybe Osama likes Tom Clancy novels.

Your assertion that terrorists got the idea to fly planes into builds from Tom Clancy is being propped up by a six sentence witty paragraph ender, that is twice removed from the source, and is prefaced with "maybe"? Even by internet standards, that's thin.

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Michael DiMercurio goes on even further:

Quote:

I ran into this phenomenon of fiction writers being out front myself. One of my novels, written before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, described a cruise missile with a nuclear "dirty bomb" as its warhead launched by a submarine belonging to a uniting dictator of a pan-Islamic West-hating organization called the United Islamic Front of God. The Islamic dictator was called "The Sword of Islam" and carried a dagger in the belt of his robes. Just like our pal Osama later did. The target of the dirty bomb was Washington, D.C. It was chilling to get an email from a U.S. Army soldier stating that this novel was found in one of Saddam Hussein's palaces. It was apparently well-read and dog-eared.

This is DiMercurio talking about one of his own novels, not a Clancy novel. How this relates to Tom Clancy is beyond me. Read about the Bojinka plot. One of the high points of this operation was flying explosive-laden planes into high-profile building targets in major U.S. cities. Bojinka was being planned prior to the release of Debt of Honor in mid-1994. Unless Clancy was dropping plot points to terrorists on the sly, they had already added "flying planes into buildings" to their list of bad-guy good ideas. Tom Clancy dropping plot points to terrorists... now there is an Infowars-worthy nutjob conspiracy!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer

Tom Clancy dropping plot points to terrorists... now there is an Infowars-worthy nutjob conspiracy!

No, it's true! It helped boost his book sales.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

I liked his books. However, no one is talking how the 9/11 idea should be credited to him. The 1994 book "Debt of Honor" had a story of a pilot crashing 747 into Capitol Hill killing president and most of the government. We know that Muslim extremists started working on similar ideas soon after and the rest is history.

It wasn't just Clancy...Dale Brown's Storming Heaven (also published in 1994) featured more or less the same thing.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer

Read about the Bojinka plot. One of the high points of this operation was flying explosive-laden planes into high-profile building targets in major U.S. cities.

I'm well familiar with Bojinka, but that involved crashing a small plane into CIA. The plan was upgraded by Bin Ladin himself who said "Why do you use an axe, when you can use a bulldozer?" This was all happening AFTER Clancy's book was published. It is in the 9/11 Commission report. link

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

I liked his books. However, no one is talking how the 9/11 idea should be credited to him. The 1994 book "Debt of Honor" had a story of a pilot crashing 747 into Capitol Hill killing president and most of the government. We know that Muslim extremists started working on similar ideas soon after and the rest is history.

It wasn't just Clancy...Dale Brown's Storming Heaven (also published in 1994) featured more or less the same thing.

Thanks! I didn't know about it. I looked the book up on the amazon and this review caught my attention:

Quote:

Reading this now five years on from 9/11, I can see why a reviewer might have thought Bin Laden had read this book, and it's also worth checking out Dale's blogs on airbattleforce.com, as a writer myself I know all too well the responsibility an author has to society - in my first book, published a year before the 7/7 London attacks, a terrorist takes a rucksack bomb on to a London tube train and is stopped at - wait for it King's Cross! Scary.

http://www.amazon.com/Storming-Heaven-Da...nDateDescending I stand by my point, that in this day and age, fiction writers can be irresponsible if they give too good ideas to the terrorists, who are not too bright people themselves, but they do read fiction books.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ridiculous!

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle

Ridiculous!

Whatever.

 

[artificialist]

My father read some of his books and he loved all of them. If you really want to blame someone for the concept of destroying things by crashing planes into them, why not look into the Kamikaze of WWII?

 

[InhalingBullets]

Originally Posted By: troberts

InhalingBullets, I'm with you in wishing there were more books based on John Clark. In fact, "Without Remorse" is my all time favorite Clancy. We've lost one of the greats....

Yup, Without Remorse is by far my favorite book of all time. Nothing like a book full of gratuitous revenge killin'! It would make a great movie! I hated how they cast the slimy Willem Defoe as Clark in Clear and Present Danger.

 

[supton]

At the time I read Without Remorse I was in that time of life, listening to heavy metal; and I always thought it'd make a great movie, using Metallica's "Without Remorse" somewhere in it. The song doesn't have the justification behind it that the book does, but it kinda fits just the same. Too bad Peter Jackson can't do the novels. I'd almost pay to go see the movies then. I always kinda felt left down from the movies, as I had read the books a few times prior to seeing them. Actually, I might not have bothered seeing the last one (or two), since they just deviated so far from the book in the other movies. Let alone how change in actors etc.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Quote:

But fiction authors did. Late in CNN's morning coverage, author Tom Clancy was asked about the events of the day. At first, I wondered if CNN were truly desperate, asking a fiction writer to comment on the catastrophe, but Clancy gave the best and most cogent analysis of anyone on the air that morning. He mentioned that one of his novels depicted a hijacked jumbo crashing into the Capitol during a joint session of Congress, decapitating the government. Maybe Osama likes Tom Clancy novels.

Your assertion that terrorists got the idea to fly planes into builds from Tom Clancy is being propped up by a six sentence witty paragraph ender, that is twice removed from the source, and is prefaced with "maybe"? Even by internet standards, that's thin.

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

Michael DiMercurio goes on even further:

Quote:

I ran into this phenomenon of fiction writers being out front myself. One of my novels, written before the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, described a cruise missile with a nuclear "dirty bomb" as its warhead launched by a submarine belonging to a uniting dictator of a pan-Islamic West-hating organization called the United Islamic Front of God. The Islamic dictator was called "The Sword of Islam" and carried a dagger in the belt of his robes. Just like our pal Osama later did. The target of the dirty bomb was Washington, D.C. It was chilling to get an email from a U.S. Army soldier stating that this novel was found in one of Saddam Hussein's palaces. It was apparently well-read and dog-eared.

This is DiMercurio talking about one of his own novels, not a Clancy novel. How this relates to Tom Clancy is beyond me. Read about the Bojinka plot. One of the high points of this operation was flying explosive-laden planes into high-profile building targets in major U.S. cities. Bojinka was being planned prior to the release of Debt of Honor in mid-1994. Unless Clancy was dropping plot points to terrorists on the sly, they had already added "flying planes into buildings" to their list of bad-guy good ideas. Tom Clancy dropping plot points to terrorists... now there is an Infowars-worthy nutjob conspiracy!

Maybe someone got the idea from this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-25_Empire_State_Building_crash Edit: Check out the picture.

 

[supton]

I'm sorry, but I found the wiki article interesting.

Quote:

The B-25 Empire State Building crash was a 1945 aircraft accident in which a B-25 Mitchell piloted in thick fog crashed into the Empire State Building. The accident did not compromise the building's structural integrity, but it did cause fourteen deaths (three crewmen and eleven people in the building) and damage estimated at $1,000,000 ($13,000,000 current dollar adjustment). Details On Saturday, July 28, 1945, Lieutenant Colonel William Franklin Smith, Jr. was piloting a B-25 Mitchell bomber on a routine personnel transport mission from Bedford Army Air Field to Newark Airport. Smith asked for clearance to land, but was advised of zero visibility. Proceeding anyway, he became disoriented by the fog, and started turning right instead of left after passing the Chrysler Building. At 9:40 a.m., the aircraft crashed into the north side of the Empire State Building, between the 78th and 80th floors, carving an 18 ft (5.5 m) x 20 ft (6.1 m) hole in the building[8] where the offices of the National Catholic Welfare Council were located. One engine shot through the side opposite the impact and flew as far as the next block, landing on the roof of a nearby building and starting a fire that destroyed a penthouse. The other engine and part of the landing gear plummeted down an elevator shaft. The resulting fire was extinguished in 40 minutes. It is still the only fire at such a height that has ever been successfully controlled. Fourteen people were killed: Smith, the two others aboard the bomber (Staff Sergeant Christopher Domitrovich and Albert Perna, a Navy aviation machinist's mate hitching a ride), and eleven people in the building. Elevator operator Betty Lou Oliver was injured. Rescuers decided to transport her on an elevator which they did not know had weakened cables. She survived a plunge of 75 stories, which still stands as the Guinness World Record for the longest survived elevator fall. Despite the damage and loss of life, the building was open for business on many floors on the following Monday. The crash helped spur the passage of the long-pending Federal Tort Claims Act of 1946, as well as the insertion of retroactive provisions into the law, allowing people to sue the government for the accident.

 

[dickwells]

No cause of death released as far as I can tell. May I let my paranoia run wild and make a speculative guess that he succumbed to either a small bb dosed with Ricin or a tasty cup of Polonium tea?

 

[Garak]

He'd probably appreciate us thinking that were the cause, so why not!