response from Chevron-Texaco

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Simple question asked..."is your Havoline Synthetic 5w-30 a group III or group IV/V base stock motor oil?" Response; "Thank you for contacting ChevronTexaco. We do not release proprietary formula information. Please be aware that the ultimate performance of a synthetic motor oil rests with a carefully balanced blend of the synthetic base stock and the additive package used. Chevron Supreme Synthetic Motor Oils and Havoline Synthetic Motor Oils are both blended with additive packages that will provide premium performance." Is being a G III or G IV really a mission critical formulation secret? Evidently yes. Mikep
 

mikep

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quote:
Originally posted by satterfi: Didn't you the answer before you asked it?
I have a pretty strong suspicion but lately there has been some buzz here that it may be a G IV or at least a G III +. Mikep
 
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No, it sounds like a corporate response to protect its proprietary information from snooping competitors. At least ChevronTexaco puts its product and material safety data sheets on the net for anyone to read unlike a certain BP division. Just because "mikep" asked as a consumer doesn't mean ChevronTexaco's under any obligation to presume he's being truthful or wouldn't post the info on a motor oil enthusiast web site frequented by second-guessing amateur tribologists. (Gosh, what a novel notion - too bad Bob didn't try that idea... [Smile] ) [ November 10, 2003, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
 
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Thankyou Ray H. The point is that all the group III synthetic producers rest their case on the performance of the product. Just like the non-synthetic oils have to. The group III VS PAO VS ester is an internet disscussion board thing which is brought up by persons that are some how connected to sale of PAO and ester formulated engine oils and have an interest in their continued success. [ November 10, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
 
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If they used a group IV/V they would at least tell you!! The only people that will not disclose the base type is those that wish to cheat consumers buy chargeing them G IV/V price for group III product!!! Mobil/Exxon will tell you at least what their base stock is! Redline will also tell you that they use alot of eters. Amsoil will also give you some base stock info.
 

mikep

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Ray H, I understand that they must be very careful not to divulge "propietary" formulation information but really, is G III or G IV that propietary or secretive? It's not as though I asked for the % of esters or PAO or ppm of moly (if any). If they responded with a clear answer that it is in fact hydroisomerized or PAO and I posted such info on BITOG, would that be a blockbuster and allow their competitors get a leg up on them? No trade secrets are being asked. Userfriendly...FWIW...I agree with you that the disdain some express for GIII products may not be based on performance data but instead on emotional or hearsay reasons. I can only conclude it is a GIII motor oil based on their response, or lack thereof. And that is fine with me if it yields performance in line with its price, relative to PAO, G-IV products. Jay...can you expand on that? At first glance it does seem to me the MSDS reads as a GIII but others have pointed out items in the MSDS that may cast some doubt. Mikep [ November 10, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: mikep ]
 
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Discussed in another thread, that not all PAO formulated engine oils are created equal, but hide behind the synthetic viel too. Why does Mobil's own Delvac 1 5W40 cost almost twice as much as their other "synthetic" engine oils? The Havoline group III subject has been flogged to death, along with Castrol Syntech and a few others. When it was discovered that Texaco's synthetics could be purchased for $1.99 it did not bring an end to the price argument. Only a response that that was not the "regular price". So now we have to wait for the "regular" price of group IIIs to come down to a buck ninety-nine to satisfy all. Good grief people, give it a rest.
 

GSV

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quote:
The group III VS PAO VS ester is an internet disscussion board thing which is brought up by persons that are some how connected to sale of PAO and ester formulated engine oils and have an interest in their continued success.
Well, I own stock in Chevron/Texaco and Exxon/Mobil but I'm not yacking about basestocks because I think my inane BITOG ramblings are going to drive up the value of my portfolio. I have no other financial ties to the oil business. Right now in the 3 vehicles parked in my driveway/garage I have Redline (no financial interest) Mobil 1 (guilty) and German Castrol (no financial interest). I just like getting what I consider to be my moneys worth if I plunk down 4+ bucks a quart. Now I may be stupid or ignorant and I'm willing to be proven to be both but I don't consider Group III based oils to be worth as much as Group IV/V. [Cheers!] [Patriot]
 
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that sounds TOTALLY like BS to get out of saying "well, its group III" I bet if it was group 4, 5 they would admit it no problem.
 
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No one should be surprised. It's just a boilerplate response that hides behind some typical company policy. Their competitors already know exactly what the product is made of, I'm sure of it. They wouldn't want to provide their potential customers with a way to make an informed purchasing decision, it would eliminate 1/2 of their add copy writers and marketing people...
 
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I don't know about all that jazz, but havoline synthetic is perhaps one of the least expensive of the otc synthetics (the label says synthetic) and its done well for me. I think for price vs good stuff...its pretty hard to beat. Got close to 6k on the current oil change (third time that i made it that far) and my truck still likes it. the stuff works, and it works well for the price. What else can I say? ( no financial interest in havoline here either) [Cheers!]
 

mikep

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quote:
Originally posted by dustyjoe1: ....the stuff works, and it works well for the price. What else can I say? ( no financial interest in havoline here either) [Cheers!]
That should be all that matters! Mikep
 
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"The group III VS PAO VS ester is an internet disscussion board thing which is brought up by persons that are some how connected to sale of PAO and ester formulated engine oils and have an interest in their continued success." Like GSV said, that simply isn't true. I do not own stock in Mobil, Lubrizol or any other Group III/IV manufacturer or blender that I know of. In August 2002 I bought a little Chevron-Texaco stock because I got some positive news about it from my investment brokerage. Couple that with the fact that I knew they made a good oil and it seemed like they were ratcheting up their markting efforts ... although not really that much. It's not doing poorly, but I'm not retiring next year either. [Wink] As JohnBrowning said, the whole issue was about deception and charging people for fine imported wine when you are actually fermenting grape juice in a warehouse in New Joisey. [Roll Eyes] --- Bror Jace
 
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