Repubs to Abolish IRS

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Hastert Book Says GOP Plans to Abolish IRS

By Doug Patton
Talon News
August 2, 2004

WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert (R-IL) writes in a new book that Congressional Republicans plan to push for the elimination of the Internal Revenue Service during a Bush second term.

The Drudge Report revealed Sunday that Hastert's book, "Speaker: Lessons From Forty Years of Coaching and Politics," discloses a plan by President Bush and the GOP Congress to replace the burdensome federal income tax with a national sales tax.

"People ask me if I'm really calling for the elimination of the IRS," Hastert writes. "I say I think that's a great thing to do for future generations of Americans."

A growing number of Members of Congress have become supporters of the so-called "Fair Tax" (web site), a national sales tax on new consumer items. U.S. Reps. John Linder (R-GA) and Steve King (R-IA) have been vocal supporters of the plan.

"By adopting a sales tax, ... we could begin to change productivity," Hastert writes. "If you can do that, you can change gross national product and start growing the economy. You could double the economy over the next fifteen years."

"All of a sudden, the problem of what future generations owe in Social Security and Medicare won't be so daunting anymore," Hastert continues. "The answer is to grow the economy, and the key to doing that is making sure we have a tax system that attracts capital and builds incentives to keep it here instead of forcing it out to other nations."

King, who campaigned on the proposal during his first run for Congress in 2002, has said he believes the measure would pass if President Bush were to get behind it during his second term. He also believes that once taxpayers understand the ramifications of the change, they will embrace it.

"We need to stop taxing productivity," King told Talon News. "As Ronald Reagan said, whatever you tax you get less of. I believe we should give taxpayers a one-year moratorium on withholding tax and let them keep everything they earn while trying the Fair Tax. Do that and they will never go back to the old system."

Hastert admits the change won't be easy.

"Pushing reform legislation will be difficult," he says. "Change of any sort seldom comes easy. But these changes are critical to our economic vitality and our economic security abroad."

Copyright © 2004 Talon News -- All rights reserved.

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[Jelly]

When I first saw "abolish IRS" I thought Republicans were wanting the go back to solid rear axles on cars...

 

[427Z06]

Supposedly, people who are at a poverty level who can't pay the 23 percent (proposed Fair-Tax sales tax percentage) would get a check every month for the amount of money that it's anticipated they would spend based on their income.

Wonder how they're going to "anticipate" what poor people would spend? This will be the controversial part of this plan.

If Mr. Goober and Mrs. Goober keep having kids, do they keep getting a bigger and bigger checks to compensate for the added mouths to feed? This may not be the positive feedback loop were looking for.

Otherwise, I'm all for a Consumption Tax instead of an Income Tax.

 

[Pablo]

Consumption of beer, donuts and LP gas should be taxed.

Motor oil and lubes shouldn't be taxed.

That's my platform for 2004.

Vote for me early and often.

 

[427Z06]

Pablo, between the beer and LPG tax, you just lost most of the votes from Texas.

 

[Al]

we beat this on into submission the last couple of days.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=002943

 

[Pablo]

Yeah but what I lost in Texas I gained with the granola munchers and BiTOG crowd!

 

[cryptokid]

my taxes overall would go way the **** up if this plan went through.

alot of people work under the table and enjoy minimal taxes.

i would vote against this if i could.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by cryptokid:
my taxes overall would go way the **** up if this plan went through.

alot of people work under the table and enjoy minimal taxes.

i would vote against this if i could.

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Yep, your free ride would end under this plan. You'd have to start paying your fair share instead of freeloading off the rest of us tax payers.

(shhsh, just kidding...chill)

 

[carrera79]

cryptokid-I don't understand... I'm a conservative, and I want the lowest taxes possible, but I don't feel for anyone working under the table who isn't paying any taxes. That's the whole idea of the plan. Under the table workers, like drug dealers for example, would now pay taxes. It wouldn't remove black markets from the economy, but at least they would be taxed.

 

[keith]

I am starting to read some real meat about the plan that might be proposed.

Not only the income tax will disappear, so will Social Security and Medicare taxes. Even though the poor generally pay no Federal income tax (may even get IRS welfare via EITC) they will benefit from the elimination of the other taxes, with an immediate 10% to 15% earning increase.

As has been mentioned in this thread, there will be a lot of existing "freeloaders" that will now be contributing to the running of the nation under the new tax structure.

At the end of the day though, I can't expect any more than "tax cuts for the evil rich" to waft out of Kennedy, Hillary, etc.. Shame, I think we all need to take a close look with an open mind.

This would be by far the boldest domestic policy move by any President since the New Deal.

Keith.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Whoa, I just might have to vote repub in November!! ( instead of Libertarian, not Dem, don't get any crazy ideas.) Wouldn't this be sweet. If I see some more solid info coming out, it's straight repub ticket for me! Well except I am writing back in Jack Ryan for Senate.

 

[javacontour]

This has been my idea all along.

Here is MY tax plan.

Stop all payroll deductions, make it illegal to deduct ANY taxes from a workers paycheck.

Your representative in the house would send you a bill each month for your taxes, you have to write a check, click something, NO AUTOMATIC PAYMENTS allowed. (The idea is you need to think about the money and who it's going to.)

The IRS would be turned loose on your representative, and they would make sure that all the money you sent got into the federal till.

I bet people would look more closely at who they elect if the reality of those pork projects brought into the district are paid for by the same taxes you pay into the system.

I am always amazed at how so many citizens are willing to sell their vote and pay themselves with their own money.

TB

 

[VaderSS]

That happens during a war...

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Another Republican idea that looks good on paper.

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Actually, this has been bantered about by both parties with some support. The Repubs have simply mapped out the architecture and have defined more it clearly.

We are the people, and it is going to be up to us to push for this tax revision. I believe someone stated it will take a constitutional revision to accomplish this, but then again, the constitution was amended to create income (payroll) taxes in the first place.

Just remember, a constitutional amendment is NOT a dirty word when it benefits the whole nation's economy and people right down to the lower income levels.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:

Actually, this has been bantered about by both parties with some support. The Repubs have simply mapped out the architecture and have defined more it clearly.

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It is certainly an interesting proposal. On the surface it looks good, but the devil is in the details.

This website:
http://economics.about.com/cs/taxpolicy/a/fairtax.htm
has an interesting article and email on the topic. I think he makes too much of acouple of potentially small problems, and doesn't touch a couple of big changes at all. Still, it's a good place to start.

The Cato institute also has an older article on the topic online.

One potentially good thing that I haven't heard discussed yet. Countries with VAT (similar to a national sales tax) don't charge VAT on exports. That makes their exports cheaper. I don't believe the US does anything close to that on business taxes for exported products. The plan could result in a considerable improvement in our international competitiveness.

The amount of the tax is being misrepresented though. If you buy an item and 23% of the price you pay is national sales tax, the real tax rate is 30%.

For example, you buy a case of Ultimate motor oil for $100 and 23% of the sale price is national sales tax.

That means the untaxed price was $77.

23/77*100=29.87% actual tax rate.

The gumnt isn't going to stop spending money soon, so overall we are going to keep paying about the same amount of tax. It would be nice though to see them not starting out with a deceptive description of the amount of the tax.

It still sounds good though.

It would need to be worked into law with a constitutional ban on income tax, or we would just end up with the worst of both worlds.

 

[Shannow]

Unfortunately, this style of tax doesn't stop the cash economy, and can, in fact help it.

Our GST, to prevent double taxation, has middel men claiming the GST on their inputs, and charging GST on their sales.

e.g. My father in law might buy a magazine from the publisher for $11. He claims $1 GST back (that which was paid on the purchase price). He sells the magazine for $16.50, and charges pays $1.50 GST, so he owes the Government 50c, the GST on the $5 difference in pre-tax price.

OK for a newsagent, as all stock that comes in goes out.

Now take an electrician. He can buy $110 worth of materials, and claim $10 input tax credits. If he uses those materials on two jobs, one cash, and one on the books, he's getting input tax credits on all his materials, and only paying GST on half his income.

I hope the above makes sense.

It's become rampant down here, and there appears to be no way of stopping it.

I'm still in favour of the system, but it needs to be fixed.

 

[XS650]

quote:

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Originally posted by Shannow:
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Now take an electrician. He can buy $110 worth of materials, and claim $10 input tax credits. If he uses those materials on two jobs, one cash, and one on the books, he's getting input tax credits on all his materials, and only paying GST on half his income.

It's become rampant down here, and there appears to be no way of stopping it.

I'm still in favour of the system, but it needs to be fixed.

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Nail a few of the tax dodging parasites to the wall (figuratively speaking) and leave their bodies up for the others to see.

 

[MolaKule]

How would the lower income people fare? Much better under this plan. All value added taxes would be stripped from the economy (another plus) which will benefit everyone, except the socialist Democrats.

Read the details at:

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

 

[Gary Allan]

This is a "fairytale" proposal. No one is really going to let it happen. It's too fair. Both the left and the right have been manipulating the tax codes for all time. When you hear "tax cut", typically it always means "tax shift". If a fair tax plan is proposed ..the back room deals will surely sabotage it ...or modify it to the point of ineffectivness.


They like it the way it is.

Now if your vote MANDATED the tax implimentation, in its conceptual form ...then it would be worth a try, otherwise it's just a "proposed offering".