Replacement bulbs: Reveal 2500K vs 3-3.5k K

[JHZR2]

Some of the bulbs in one kitchen fixture have started to fail (100W-equivalent CFLs) after about five years of pretty consistent use. That is, somewhere around three to six hours of use per day.

I put the CFLs in shortly after we moved in just to save electricity versus the incandescents that were in there before. The fixture is a ceiling fan with four lights that have solid, opaque surrounds. The actual bulb holders/surrounds look something like this one (forget the base and vertical part):

So the light has to be fairly one-directional, and/or stick somewhat out from the fixture.

Ive been playing around with LEDs in many places in my home, and have a lot of them in use. Many spots that have CFLs will not as they burn out. For this specific application, Ive tried some PAR 20 LEDs which focus the light well. Problem is that they are only 50W equivalent, get REALLY hot on the metal heatsink, and are too short so the beam doesnt spread right. I tried some more standard LED bulbs, but they only go to around 60W equivalent at a decent size and price, and dont put out enough light.

I'd say that the 50W equivalent PAR20 bulbs are almost as bright as a 100W CFL in this application.

so... Good quality 100W equivalent CFLs like GE reveal are around $10 for two. LEDs in that PAR20 size are around $20 each (these are HD/Lowes prices, may be somewhat cheaper on Amazon). Benefit goes to CFL, because at the price and typical life, we are doing pretty well... Even if I have to replace them more. If the PAR20 at haf the energy use works well, there is electricity savings to be had, but it is somewhat diminishing returns.

Here's the thing, I have always had 2700K CFLs, and generally dont like the yellowness of the light. I dont like daylight type high color temp bulbs either. Many of the CFLs Ive bought recently are 3000K, and I like that light a lot more. The 3000K diffused bulbs are wonderful, and the 3000K PAR20, if a tad bit harsh, still is nice task and working light.

I see that the reveal bulbs are around 2500K. Ive never used/owned them. It seems that the blue coating adds enough of certain wavelengths to make it more whitish, but is this really the case? Especially for their CFLs? If so, Im inclined to stay with CFLs for this since they stick out a tiny bit and throw light well from these fixtures (downside they dont dim). Or will I be disappointed compared to the 3000K light that I seem to enjoy?

Has anyone compared the two? Is reveal true white or does it add red or still retain yellow? Im not a fan of the 5000-6500K daylight bulbs in most applications...

My kitchen is Benjamin Moore Philipsburg Blue, with whitewashed wood cabinets and a light countertop, FWIW.

http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/paint-color/philipsburgblue

Economics of acquisition aside, should I consider the Reveal CFLs or dig more with the PAR 20 3000K bulbs (e.g. get some A19 base extenders or something else)?

Thanks!

 

[Rolla07]

I like the LED's. I dont know how many lights you have but did you come up with reasoning about whether CFL/LEDS are even worth it? Im not saying it isnt but a 4 pack of conventional lightbulbs is about a buck..so .25cents per bulb compared to 5$ per bulb for CFL...say 4 regular bulbs = 1 CFL in lifespan are you truly saving the other 4$ cost difference in electricity? Im just curious if you calculated the savings by using LED & CFL regarding lifespan/energy savings.

 

[antiqueshell]

For me color temperature, CRI, and price are more important than
CFL or LED.

I', glad I am not alone in hating that typical 2700k warm light and 5000k daylight.

I find 3500-4000k to be the most pleasant, but it is darn hard to find those color temps in most stores.

I think they call that color temp range "neutral".

Anyone have suggestions on where I can find CFLs in that temp range. I also would like to find them for my two pin style mini
fluorescent bulb which is NOT a CFL but just the bulb.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I like the LED's. I dont know how many lights you have but did you come up with reasoning about whether CFL/LEDS are even worth it? Im not saying it isnt but a 4 pack of conventional lightbulbs is about a buck..so .25cents per bulb compared to 5$ per bulb for CFL...say 4 regular bulbs = 1 CFL in lifespan are you truly saving the other 4$ cost difference in electricity? Im just curious if you calculated the savings by using LED & CFL regarding lifespan/energy savings.


Good question. We have four bulbs in the fixture. Say we ran four 100w incandescent bulbs in there, and ran it on average four hours a night. That is 1.6kWh just for that lighting. At around 15c/kWh, that means it would cost us 24c/day. Say were home 300 days a year, that's $72 per year versus about 1/4 of that since a 100w cfl uses about 23W.

Making a jump from cfl to led is not going to make a big savings unless the led can last longer in some location. Given that we got around five years out of these,and I'm running them off a remote control that technically is a dimmer, I can't complain,mother than that they don't dim. LEDs dim nicely fwiw.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
I like the LED's. I dont know how many lights you have but did you come up with reasoning about whether CFL/LEDS are even worth it? Im not saying it isnt but a 4 pack of conventional lightbulbs is about a buck..so .25cents per bulb compared to 5$ per bulb for CFL...say 4 regular bulbs = 1 CFL in lifespan are you truly saving the other 4$ cost difference in electricity? Im just curious if you calculated the savings by using LED & CFL regarding lifespan/energy savings.


Good question. We have four bulbs in the fixture. Say we ran four 100w incandescent bulbs in there, and ran it on average four hours a night. That is 1.6kWh just for that lighting. At around 15c/kWh, that means it would cost us 24c/day. Say were home 300 days a year, that's $72 per year versus about 1/4 of that since a 100w cfl uses about 23W.

Making a jump from cfl to led is not going to make a big savings unless the led can last longer in some location. Given that we got around five years out of these,and I'm running them off a remote control that technically is a dimmer, I can't complain,mother than that they don't dim. LEDs dim nicely fwiw.

Not only money saving with CFL, but money saving with buying CFL too. Most CFL bulbs I bought several years ago were around 10 to 25 cents each, some of them were free when we bought groceries above $20-30.

I think we save about 50-60 kWh a month with CFL bulbs, and it's clearly has longer life span than incandescent where the light is on for more than 1-2 hours a day.

I don't see energy saving for switching from CFL to LED, I have enough CFL bulbs to last another 8-10 years.

 

[JHZR2]

Well I tried the reveal bulbs. Very nice CFLs. While they say 2500K, I'm not sure what's the point of specifying a color temperature when the light is very white and pure. I like the 2500K reveal as much as the 3000K LEDs, and of course the price more.

3000K, 60W equivalent LEDs are at Costco for $5.99 each after rebate here. Light is beautiful but omnidirectional, so they don't do hat great in the aforementioned fixture. Guess I'll go with four reveal 100w equivalent bulbs.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

We have 3 of these fixtures (2 lamps in each) in the hallway leading to the guest bedrooms. They are aimed at and light up the artwork on the walls, and also provide lighting for the entire hallway.

I picked up 6 Par20 LEDs-if I remember correctly they claimed to be 3000K color temperature.

The do a good job of replacing the original GE Revel 50w par 20 bulbs that were in the fixtures. They aren't quite the same color (maybe a touch whiter) but it really makes the color on the artwork stand out. They're very directional, more so than the GE Revel par 20's that they replaced. These don't get hot at all-if they've been on for a while I can put my hand on the fixture and it's not warm at all.

They were somewhere around $8.00/bulb at Amazon.

 

[JHZR2]

Very nice! Those look like three-LED ones while the utilitech PAR 20 I tried from Lowes seems to only have one LED, FWIW. I was amazed at how hot they were, god to know yours run cooler. Thoe are the two-prong connections though, not A-19, right? Given their performance, I might try to buy the pin converter and the bulbs off Amazon... I think those converters are pretty cheap.

Thanks!

 

[JHZR2]

Well Im sticking with Reveal 100W-equivalent CFLs in this fixture.

The PAR20 bulbs are too far recessed to allow proper beam spread (though Ill revisit Pop's bulbs with some A19 adapters at some point when I place an order on Amazon).

I got a 4-pack of 100W equivalent 3500K CFLs from Lowes and I REALLY like that bright white light too. The issue is that the bulbs are shorter in overall length than the GE Reveal bulbs. What happens as a result is that they throw too much light back into the opaque lamp surround, versus dispersing it outward (this was the same case with the 60W-equivalent Feit electric LEDs I got from Costco for $5.99 each, and which perform wonderfully but throw too much light the wrong direction). The GE being longer puts the ballast right in the zone where the holes are for heat rejection, and takes some of the glass slightly beyond the end of the fixture, so the light throw is MUCH better.

But those 3500K CFLs from Lowes are very nice, as are 3000K LEDs. Id recommend them to anyone, they just didnt work for this particular fixture. Reveals do take a little time to get to full brghtness, while the Lowes 3500K lights and LEDs illuminate fully immediately, FWIW, but its OK with us.

 

[JHZR2]

Well, results to report...

Infant mortality? Perhaps... But one GE Reveal bulb is DEAD.

I have CFLs in 25-30 different individual bulb sockets throughout the house. Some are good spots for them, some arent. Ive replaced a few for them failing, but never have any failed anywhere remotely near this rate.

On top of it, now for two nights there has been a faint odor of hot/melted plastic in the space where the bulbs are, and only when they have been operating for a while.

I like the reveal bulbs, but not happy with performance. Id use the Lowes 3500K bulbs if they were slightly longer, as they would also save about 50% acquisition cost.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Is it supposed to be 50,000 hours bulb ?

I don't mind if the CFL bulbs I paid 25 cents lasted only a year or 2, I'm sure very upset if I paid big buck for LED and it died in less than 10,000 hours of use.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Thoe are the two-prong connections though, not A-19, right?


No. They are standard base Par20 bulbs that replace 50w halogen bulbs. These are not the GU10 bulbs that we have in the recessed fixtures throughout the house.

 

[JHZR2]

Ok thanks. I searched some of the bulbs from the led bulb review you put up and I thought those had the other base.

I sort of need that actually. The problem with the par 20 in our specific fixtures is that it is too short so it sits too far back. Thus some of the beam spread is not going out as the optics are designed. So an a19 to gu10 adapter would have given me the length I need