Honda K24 Timing Chain Replacement

[The Critic]

Just to help folks better understand the cost:

Primary chain, tensioner and gaskets: ~$250
Add guides (3) for primary timing chain: $155
Add intake cam VTC actuator: $160
Add oil pump (balance shaft) tensioner: $125
Add oil pump chain and guide: $65

As you can see, it gets expensive...fast.

Although the "while you're in there" argument carries some merit, if you DIY and the job isn't labor intensive, you have to strike a balance somewhere.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Is your main reason going in there the oil seepage? Because I don’t believe that amount of seepage would warrant going into that job. I know I’m more lax now that I’ve been out of the dealership for 8 years, but that seepage isn’t making it to the ground, exhaust, or causing you to have to top off right? But you did say something about chain slap I guess if I remember correctly.

 

[The Critic]

Is your main reason going in there the oil seepage? Because I don’t believe that amount of seepage would warrant going into that job. I know I’m more lax now that I’ve been out of the dealership for 8 years, but that seepage isn’t making it to the ground, exhaust, or causing you to have to top off right? But you did say something about chain slap I guess if I remember correctly.

Yes, it is the main reason. I usually have to clean it a few times per year. The photo I posted was after about a month from its last cleaning, so not much had built up yet. It definitely doesn't drip on the ground though.

The engine does have some clatter from the timing drive so I feel like it might be worth investigating since I have time right now.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I noticed that GM's timing chain kits (for warranty repairs) for their infamous 3.6's do not include guides or sprockets. They also made a specific point about not needing to replace guides unless they are worn out, though I'm sure cost is a huge factor here. On the recent Camry job, I accidentally broke two of the chain guides (due to user error) and the surfaces of the old one were unchanged from the new. So, I might just skip the guides unless teardown indicates otherwise.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Yes, it is the main reason. I usually have to clean it a few times per year. The photo I posted was after about a month from its last cleaning, so not much had built up yet. It definitely doesn't drip on the ground though.

The engine does have some clatter from the timing drive so I feel like it might be worth investigating since I have time right now.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I noticed that GM's timing chain kits (for warranty repairs) for their infamous 3.6's do not include guides or sprockets. They also made a specific point about not needing to replace guides unless they are worn out, though I'm sure cost is a huge factor here. On the recent Camry job, I accidentally broke two of the chain guides (due to user error) and the surfaces of the old one were unchanged from the new. So, I might just skip the guides unless teardown indicates otherwise.

View attachment 80530

I think with as common as a k24 timing chain job is, the parts are all in stock at your local dealer. If you get in there and they do happen to show wear, shouldn’t be hard to acquire the parts needed.

I didn’t give any thought to replacing my sprockets. The parts guy didn’t tell me they do them when I got my parts (although the customer facing counter guys don’t usually know what they are doing like the mechanic facing counter guys do), but on tear down they showed no wear, and the new chain fit them properly. I do get that there could be wear, or maybe even that there was wear, but I had no issue re-using my old ones.

 

[The Critic]

Finally getting around to doing this job. Looks like oil pan removal is going to be challenging. Does anyone have any tips?

Easiest way, without a lift, appears to involve removing the l/f axle, upper/lower trans mounts, side engine mount and unbolting the front/rear engine mount stoppers.

 

[nthach]

I didn’t give any thought to replacing my sprockets. The parts guy didn’t tell me they do them when I got my parts (although the customer facing counter guys don’t usually know what they are doing like the mechanic facing counter guys do), but on tear down they showed no wear, and the new chain fit them properly. I do get that there could be wear, or maybe even that there was wear, but I had no issue re-using my old ones.

As long as the teeth on the timing sprockets don’t look like a shark’s fin or “sharp”, it’s possible to reuse them. Honda uses the Morse-type chain, IIRC - same one Ford/GM/FCA and VW uses. Toyota uses a regular roller link chain - essentially similar to a bike or motorcycle chain. That type warrants inspection of the sprockets.

 

[hrv]

Why not just replace those gaskets and call it a day? A 155K Honda shouldn't need chains unless it wasn't maintained and starts throwing codes. Personally I wouldn't bother even doing that just for some seepage. Maybe change oil with the HM variety if not already using it.

Yup my 07 had 386000 on it with no issues...

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

Finally getting around to doing this job. Looks like oil pan removal is going to be challenging. Does anyone have any tips?

Easiest way, without a lift, appears to involve removing the l/f axle, upper/lower trans mounts, side engine mount and unbolting the front/rear engine mount stoppers.

I didn’t do my oil pump chain, sorry I can’t be of any help.

 

[The Critic]

Started taking it apart tonight. The tensioner was only out 3 clicks so the chain is fine. Perhaps the noise I was hearing was from the tensioner, not chain slap.

I will install new chains and new tensioners before reassembling.

Whatever Honda used to seal this at the factory is much much stronger than fipg. I ended up using a striking prybar and a few hard taps before it broke loose.

 

[LazyDog]

Just above the alternator or where the steering pump goes change the screen behind that cover plate.

 

[Astro14]

My history with German cars tells me that if you don't replace a chain guides while you're staring right at it, even if it looks brand new, it will disintegrate before the next oil change.

Seen that happen…

I would replace the guides if I’m doing a timing chain, just as I replace idler pulley and tensioner when I do a timing belt.

A visual inspection - “they don’t look too bad” - gives you no idea of how well the nylon/plastic is holding up chemically.

Just put new ones in.

While your guides look good in the picture, they’re right there, and easily done.

 

[The Critic]

Seen that happen…

I would replace the guides if I’m doing a timing chain, just as I replace idler pulley and tensioner when I do a timing belt.

A visual inspection - “they don’t look too bad” - gives you no idea of how well the nylon/plastic is holding up chemically.

Just put new ones in.

While your guides look good in the picture, they’re right there, and easily done.

The cost of the 3 primary timing chain guides exceeds the cost of the timing chain and tensioner.

Based on the photos, the chain is still in good shape. Technically, no service is needed.

I'll consider it, but the additional investment is difficult to justify for an application that is not known for issues with the guides.

 

[The Critic]

Seen that happen…

I would replace the guides if I’m doing a timing chain, just as I replace idler pulley and tensioner when I do a timing belt.

A visual inspection - “they don’t look too bad” - gives you no idea of how well the nylon/plastic is holding up chemically.

Just put new ones in.

While your guides look good in the picture, they’re right there, and easily done.

Ok, I bought new guides.

 

[Oliveoil2]

Chain guides become brittle with enough heat cycles on most engine's. However, Honda and most Toyota’s seem to last forever. Doing it once and not having to think about it again is worth it if you’re keeping the car. Can’t imagine doing chains on any newer German car without doing guides and tensioners. That’s a well cared for engine!!

 

[The Critic]

Got the pan out. Boy, that was fun. I think the service manual only contemplates doing the timing cover and oil pan removals as separate procedures.

If you do both items at once and you do not have a engine support bar at home, well, things get interesting.

 

[The Critic]

New oil pump chain, guide and tensioner:

It looks like Honda has updated the upper timing chain guide to be longer:

New cam chain, guides and tensioner installed:

With all new parts installed, the tensioner extends 2 teeth:

 

[Oliveoil2]

New oil pump chain, guide and tensioner:
View attachment 93064
It looks like Honda has updated the upper timing chain guide to be longer:

View attachment 93065
New cam chain, guides and tensioner installed:

View attachment 93066
View attachment 93067
With all new parts installed, the tensioner extends 2 teeth:

View attachment 93068

Well done!!

 

[The Critic]

Timing cover and Oil Pan are ready to go back on. Used Nissan RTV this time (1217H) since there is no coolant contact in this application.

Had to roloc a few burrs caused by the removal process, but I did wash the pan afterwards. Rest of the sealing areas were cleaned using a wire wheel. Hopefully it seals.

 

[ollie]

I would have switched to the Vavoline racing 50W Moly fortified. It works wonders quieting cam chain noise. My brothers Tracker started rattling over 20k miles ago. We put in the straight 50 Vavoline and it only makes noise on cold startup. When you start mixing old sprockets with new chains bad things are in the future.

 

[JC1]

What would be the dealership cost for this job? I'm guessing over $3k with parts and labor.