Reliability vs Longevity

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The US fleet has an average lifespan of fifteen years.

Fifteen years is also when the auto dealers and chain stores pretty well remainder the stock of parts (1990-91 vehicles at present).

If one has kept to good practices in maintenance, that is, fixed things right away and not cheaped out because "it's an old car" (an excuse of stupidity), then fifteen years is no "miracle".

It helps to have maintenance scheduled from the beginning (replace parts BEFORE they break, with NEW not rebuilt parts), to keep it garaged and to be sure it is taken out on the highway regularly.

Reliablity and longevity become practically synonymous at that point.

Unfortunately, some cars are lemons by design or fate, the rest are simply neglected.

Reliable, to me, means that I haven't ever been stranded . . . that I have had plenty of warning by proper maintenance and by more than one pair of eyes and ears going over the car. If the car isn't a lemon by design, then I have only myself to blame the majority of the time if I have to hoof it.

In the end reliablity comes down to maintenance and repairs on one brand versus another through the same span and conditions.

As to which is longest-lived, then body-on-frame, front-engine, rear wheel drive has no historical peers in fleet applications, whether a Chevy pickemup with a road contractor or a Crown Vic with police and taxi fleets. 300,000 miles is so common as to be not worth mentioning.

In 2000 as in 1970, 8 of 10 cars in for unscheduled service were in for electrically-related problems. Upgrade that system where possible, (more and larger cables, grounds, etc) and reap the trouble-free miles years down the road. Lamps (bulbs), fuses, breakers, all deserve to be retired at some point well-before failure, and all connections/terminations, too.
 
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Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
Lamps (bulbs), fuses, breakers, all deserve to be retired at some point well-before failure, and all connections/terminations, too.

Ah, yes, like Christmas, I look forward to the once a year bulb and fuse replacement regimen. I merrily stay up all night swapping out my 79 light bulbs (the 32 instrument panel bulbs only every other year-- Let's be reasonable: some of them are soldered!) and 48 fuses of 4 gleaming colors. They deserve a year's rest until they have to go back in next year. Last year I found almost 40 cents tearing up the carpets while replacing the wiring harnesses. The ones around the engine can be a little hard to reach, but if you remove the dash, they go through the firewall a lot smoother. I make a game out of it with the dealer parts department by ordering everything one at a time over the phone. They just love me. In relays alone, I'm spending $300 a year. But I'm worth it and so is my baby. Around this time of year, I can just tell I'm running low on free electrons. Mmmm, the reward when I'm done is smelling that fresh new ventilation fan. Oooh, I can't wait!
 
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Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
...

It helps to have maintenance scheduled from the beginning (replace parts BEFORE they break, with NEW not rebuilt parts), to keep it garaged and to be sure it is taken out on the highway regularly.

Reliablity and longevity become practically synonymous at that point.

Unfortunately, some cars are lemons by design or fate, the rest are simply neglected.

Reliable, to me, means that I haven't ever been stranded . . . that I have had plenty of warning by proper maintenance and by more than one pair of eyes and ears going over the car. If the car isn't a lemon by design, then I have only myself to blame the majority of the time if I have to hoof it.


My BMW proves that by your definition, it is not reliable, yet it does have longevity. The two are not synonymous. I have been stranded four times by that car, none of them with any warning, nor due to neglect.

1. Waterpump impeller broke.
2. Fuel pump suddenly died.
3. Radiator tank hose fitting fractured.
4. Positive battery cable separated at terminal (no corrosion).
.
The basic structure and driveline of the car are still solid as new and likely to last well over 200,000 miles.
 
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Maybe the Hundai design is simple and the quality TARGET is reliabily met, but I would not say they are long-lived vehicles, not many vintage Hundais on the road. My one Audi is 20 years old, high quality materials for items like the interior and paint.




Perhaps you aren't seeing vintage Hyundais on the road because:

1. Audi entered the US market in 1969 with a target market of AWD performance/luxury vehicles

2. Hyundai entered the US market in 1986 with a target market of super cheap econo-boxes

3. Only recently has Hyundai attempted to start moving upscale

Try looking beyond your obvious brand bias next time.
wink.gif


PS: I do not own either of the aforementioned brands.
 
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Reviving a two year old thread to start a fight. There is no hidden bias in there now is there?




Nope, none whatsoever. Was doing a search on MB 240d in these forums, browsing some topics, and came across this comment. It's just as ridiculous now as it was 2 years ago, but to tell you the truth, I hadn't even looked at the date it was posted.

Now that that's out of the way, how about actually responding to the comment I posted? There's a concept.
wink.gif
 
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Quote:


Reviving a two year old thread to start a fight. There is no hidden bias in there now is there?




Nope, none whatsoever. Was doing a search on MB 240d in these forums, browsing some topics, and came across this comment. It's just as ridiculous now as it was 2 years ago, but to tell you the truth, I hadn't even looked at the date it was posted.

Now that that's out of the way, how about actually responding to the comment I posted? There's a concept.
wink.gif





I believe you and I have already duked it out on this issue. And to go another round is
deadhorse.gif
. If you want to revisit, I'm sure you'll have no problems digging up the old thread.
 
I have a friend with a 30 year old Trimph tr(?). It has lasted 30 years, but it may not make it around the block before it breaks down. That's longevity vs. reliability.
 
Great topic!
At the end of the day, I would say no. Good parts and design rule, and will always yield both long life and reliable performance.
Now, a very expensive machine may have very poor reliability, but live forever. There are many Ferraris out there, for example, that were never up to much as daily drivers when new, that are still being driven (a little bit) twenty, thirty, or even fifty years down the road.
Let me also relate what a parts guy said to me years ago. If you maintained any car as Mercedes specs for their cars, it would last as long as a Mercedes.
I've had four Benzers, and six Hondas, and I never found the MBs longer lived than the Hondas.
 
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Lamps (bulbs), fuses, breakers, all deserve to be retired at some point well-before failure, and all connections/terminations, too.




You'd do well just to apply some Caig Labs Deoxit D5 to the connections. The stuff is magic. I don't know how it actually works but it just does. I've used it to fix noisy hookswitches on telephones. Noisy/intermittent volume controls. A malfunctioning PCI slot/network card. (One or the other, or both, was dirty). Intermittent steering wheel cruise control switches. Intermittent dashboard dimmer control.

I have actually disconnected every single electrical connector I could get to in my 2006 Saab 93 and applied Deoxit D5 to it. Not because it's having problems, but to prevent problems. I applied it to the fuses. The relays. The underhood connectors. The connectors to the doors. The connectors to the climate controls and blower motor. The connectors to the fuseboxes.

Ford, in a TSB, even recommended using Deoxit D5 on airbag connectors to fix error codes. The local distributor, Arcade Electronics, says they sell a lot of it to Ford dealers. I bet the Ford dealers are using it for more than just airbag connectors.

Deoxit D5 is to electrical equipment what AutoRx is to engines.
 
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Junkei,

Most of Volvos offerings are a mix of Ford and Mazda running gear.




That is simply not true.

The S40 has been the one exception. But through the '06 MY, the S60/V70 S80 and XC90 have all had primarily Swedish (and German) componentry. The closest Ford came in both our S60s were a few FoMoCo branded electrical connectors underhood.

With the newest generation of models, you may start to see some more corporate platforming. But Ford has basically stayed out of Volvos business except to fund them.

I can't say that the later models are as stone durable as the old red block bricks were, but there are plenty of multi-hundred thousand mile 850s tooling around, ours included (well . . . ours only has 187k, so far).

For the later models, it's just too early to tell. But the five cylinder drive trains are rock solid and structural body integrity remains superb.

Volvos are not always paragons of reliability, but they seem to age quite well as a group, whatever the reason.
 
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