reinventing the wheel. Tweel

seotaji · Jan 12, 2005

http://www.sportbilen.se/e_index.php?page=e_news.php?id=89

quote:
Michelin has also found that it can tune Tweel performances independently of each other, which is a significant change from conventional tires. This means that vertical stiffness (which primarily affects ride comfort) and lateral stiffness (which affects handling and cornering) can both be optimized, pushing the performance envelope in these applications and enabling new performances not possible for current inflated tires. The Tweel prototype, demonstrated on the Audi A4, is within five percent of the rolling resistance and mass levels of current pneumatic tires. That translates to within one percent of the fuel economy of the OE fitment. Additionally, Michelin has increased the lateral stiffness by a factor of five, making the prototype unusually responsive in its handling.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

srivett · Jan 12, 2005

That is interesting, now put a tire around it. [Smile]

Those tires would not handle too well after a few pop cans or a potatoe found their way into them. What if you parked in a puddle that froze? hehe Cheers, Steve

Shannow · Jan 12, 2005

I bet they'd wrinkle like a top fueler's tyre when you floor it !!

T-Keith · Jan 12, 2005

This is a great step. I wonder how the price will stack up. -T

kevm14 · Jan 12, 2005

While there will always be a place/market for pneumatic tires (think drag racing, hauling or anywhere you'd need the effects of varied inflation pressure), I think there is also a huge OEM market for these. It looks like you can fit quite a thick patch of rubber on there, for good tread life. Also, I'm sure the production versions would include a "sidewall" cover for the support spokes. But how will aftermarket sizes work? "Yo, I got some dub-Tweels."

1sttruck · Jan 12, 2005

Doesn't look like it would work that well on gravel roads, in mud, in snow, etc., as stuff could fill up the spaces. Think how nice the ride would be if it filled up with mud and snow and then froze hard. At speed you might even be able to pull the tire off of the rim with all of the extra weight inside the tire.

jsharp · Jan 12, 2005

From Michelin. The company that brought you the TRX wheels and tires. Remember when they we're going to be used everywhere in just a few short years? [Wink]

kevm14 · Jan 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by 1sttruck: Doesn't look like it would work that well on gravel roads, in mud, in snow, etc., as stuff could fill up the spaces. Think how nice the ride would be if it filled up with mud and snow and then froze hard. At speed you might even be able to pull the tire off of the rim with all of the extra weight inside the tire.

See my post above...production version would almost certainly include a cover for the assembly. It's uncovered in pictures to show how it works, being a prototype and all.

kevm14 · Jan 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by T-Keith: Actually that will probably be the biggest disadvantage to these tire is that you can't have a super large rim size, meaning smaller brakes are needed and people won't think they are as cool.

Well, you could make the rim larger. It couldn't ride much worse than your average honda accord on 20" conventional tires! But seriously, I'm sure some manufacturer will figure out that you can extend the appearance of the rim even if the spokes go further in radially. They have large wheels like that now, same principle. EDIT: I just noticed this. The inside rear tire is almost off the ground! I dunno if that's a function of the tire design or just the sheer cornering forces the [likely] soft rubber compound and lateral stiffness is providing. [ January 13, 2005, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: kevm14 ]

XS650 · Jan 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by jsharp: From Michelin. The company that brought you the TRX wheels and tires. Remember when they we're going to be used everywhere in just a few short years?

From Michelin, the people who brought you the radial tire.

T-Keith · Jan 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by jsharp: From Michelin. The company that brought you the TRX wheels and tires. Remember when they we're going to be used everywhere in just a few short years?

Yep and radial tires are junk and won't last. [Wink]

tomsjeep · Jan 13, 2005

i am a jeep driver... these trweel things would not survive a single off-road excursion, unless i misundertand their nature. even standard radials don't survive a good off-road experience, and coming in off-road involves shaking off the mud, etc. that is stuck in the treads... i don't see these things being able to survive that transition to highway from offroad, regardless of "covers" etc. provided.

T-Keith · Jan 13, 2005

Actually that will probably be the biggest disadvantage to these tire is that you can't have a super large rim size, meaning smaller brakes are needed and people won't think they are as cool.

cousincletus · Jan 14, 2005

Pretty cool. Looks sorta like a forklift tire. [Big Grin]

Tyson F Nuss · Jan 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by kevm14: EDIT: I just noticed this. The inside rear tire is almost off the ground! I dunno if that's a function of the tire design or just the sheer cornering forces the [likely] soft rubber compound and lateral stiffness is providing.

This is not uncommon behavior for FWD cars pulling extreme lateral Gs, particularly noted in VW (and derivative Audi) FWD suspension designs; IIRC, back in the day of the original VW Rabbit/Golf GTI (grandpappy of the FWD tuned-econocar "hot hatch" -- which would make an original Mini Cooper the great-grandpappy? [Cool]

) this behavior became so routinely noted that a term of endearment was coined for it -- the "VW salute". [Big Grin]

[ January 15, 2005, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Tyson F Nuss ]

seotaji · Jan 14, 2005

that would be the dog&hydrant manuver.

quote:
i am a jeep driver... these trweel things would not survive a single off-road excursion, unless i misundertand their nature. even standard radials don't survive a good off-road experience, and coming in off-road involves shaking off the mud, etc. that is stuck in the treads... i don't see these things being able to survive that transition to highway from offroad, regardless of "covers" etc. provided.

I believe these are just for street cars at the moment. I agree, at present they wouldn't be very good off road where airing down is sometimes necessary. So they would be perfect for street queen truck drivers [Wink]

jsharp · Jan 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by XS650:
quote:
Originally posted by jsharp: From Michelin. The company that brought you the TRX wheels and tires. Remember when they we're going to be used everywhere in just a few short years?
From Michelin, the people who brought you the radial tire.

I suppose that's not bad. Batting 50%. [Wink]

Like others, I wonder how these things are going to work when full of mud or ice...

kevm14 · Jan 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by Tyson F Nuss: This is not uncommon behavior for FWD cars pulling extreme lateral Gs, particularly noted in VW (and derivative Audi) FWD suspension designs; IIRC, back in the day of the original VW Rabbit/Golf GTI (grandpappy of the FWD tuned-econocar "hot hatch" -- which would make an original Mini Cooper the great-grandpappy? ) this behavior became so routinely noted that a term of endearment was coined for it -- the "VW salute".

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure those VWs that lifted the inside rear all had a solid beam rear suspension. I didn't think a car with an IRS had a proclivity to do that. Then again, with sticky tires, you can do some pretty whacky stuff:

jsharp · Jan 17, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by kevm14:
quote:
Originally posted by Tyson F Nuss: This is not uncommon behavior for FWD cars pulling extreme lateral Gs, particularly noted in VW (and derivative Audi) FWD suspension designs; IIRC, back in the day of the original VW Rabbit/Golf GTI (grandpappy of the FWD tuned-econocar "hot hatch" -- which would make an original Mini Cooper the great-grandpappy? ) this behavior became so routinely noted that a term of endearment was coined for it -- the "VW salute".
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure those VWs that lifted the inside rear all had a solid beam rear suspension. I didn't think a car with an IRS had a proclivity to do that. Then again, with sticky tires, you can do some pretty whacky stuff:

Sticky tires. Watch a Nascar race when they're at a road course. Those cars will often carry a front wheel in slow corners...

reinventing the wheel. Tweel

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