Regarding oil specs that AMSOIL meets

[moribundman]

Is the AMSOIL website up to date? If not, where can I get the correct and current information black on white? http://www.amsoil.com/products/motoroils/index.aspx

 

[The Critic]

We've had this discussion before...and I'm telling you again (you probably think that its intentional misinformation to cause harm anyway, but thats beside the point) that Amsoil's website is not up-to-date. The web page for the Series 2000 0w-30, is not even close to being up-to-date. The new version has a different viscosity @100C and meets/exceeds API SM. You can get the most up-to-date info from Amsoil Tech Services via e-mail or via phone call. Yes, I verified the info before posting it mori, but the damage to my credibility has been done.

 

[moribundman]

According to you, Michael, AMSOIL AFL 5W-40 meets both, low and regular HTHS VW oil specs, which is IMPOSSIBLE. HTHS 2.9-3.4 and HTHS =/>3.5 simply cannot be met by the same oil. First you claim AFL 5W 40 meets both specs, in disregard of what the AMSOIL website states. According to you, the AMSOIL website is wrong. Then you throw Series 2000 0W-30 in the pot do distract from your claim regarding AFL 5W-40. I want to see YOUR claims verified black on white. Surely the AMSOIL website can be expected to represent current oil specs, because consumers base their decisions on the supplied information. What kind of company gives consumers old or incorrect information? If the supplied information is indeed incorrect, kudos to you for bringing it up. But don't just go about CLAIMING things and then ask me to disprove your claims. The burden of proof is on you, since you are the one making those as of yet unsubstantiated claims. That you claim to have "verified your information before posting it" means nothing in light of the FACT that the claim that one oil can meet low AND regular HTHS requirements is simply preposterous. The only one who can damage your credibility is you yourself. We all make mistakes on occasion, but you appear to be insistent on being right even if your claims are nothing but opinion-based, and mostly regurgitated material at that, and as such lack, at least in my eyes, plausibility. This discussion will be over once the actual, current, AMSOIL specs for AFL 5W-40 are verified.

 

[G-MAN]

I think the title of this thread should be "Regarding oil specs that AMSOIL claims to meet."

 

[moribundman]

I wish I were more of a cynic.

 

[q2bruiser]

moribundman: As a tech head myself working for companies with web sites, you would be suprised just how many companies have more information available than they have employees to manage. While I cannot speak for AMSOIL (yes, I am a customer), I can tell you it is quite common for web sites to have out of date and many times just plain wrong information. I would think AMSOIL is like any other non-tech (as in computer, etc) company and their web site is less of a focus than the product they sell. I would be willing to bet there is incorrect or out of date information on their site. They are a bunch of humans after all and guess what, humans make mistakes. My $.02

 

[moribundman]

q2bruiser, this isn't about whether or not AMSOIL is sloppy when it comes to keeping their site updated, It's about UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS (for example that one and the same oil can meet mutually exclusive ratings, specifically ACEA A3 and ACEA A5) that need to be backed up with something better than "I verified the info before posting it." Anybody can make claims. [ November 09, 2005, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[moribundman]

Surely one of the resident AMSOIL dealers can confirm, or if necessary, update the specs and ratings that AFL 5W-40 meets according to the AMSOIL website: * API SL, CI-4, CF * ACEA A3/B3 * BMW LL-01/98 * Daimler Chrysler 229.3, 229.1 * Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025 * Opel Diesel Service ill GM-LL-B-025 * Porsche * Volvo * Saab * Volkswagen 501.01, 502.00, 505.00

 

[JohnBrowning]

moribundman, I am no way disputeing your main point in the above thread as I have not taken the time to review it! I will say that many Corperate websites are slow to update their information. Look at how long Redline's USA site has been out of date as compared to their Austrailian site. Last time I checked they still did not list their 5W40 on their site even though it has been available for over 4 years. They still had the old bottle on the site and the old lables. Amsoil has been know to change formula's and still use outdated labels until they are gone before putting new labels on even though the stuff int he bottle has changed. Mobil-1 is notoriusly slow in updateing the white papers on their site with each formula change. I have so often ran into web sites being out of date or incomplete that if I do not see something I think a company should have I call. 9 out of 10 times I get the coment" Yes we have that but our site has not been updated yet!".........

 

[moribundman]

John, just like I told q2bruiser, I'm telling you it isn't about whether or not AMSOIL is slow with updating their website! It's about the alleged specs and ratings AFL 5W-40 meets and any proof other than hearsay, which is not proof. Strange that none of the AMSOIL dealers says a peep!

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

The listing you put out is exactly the same as that given on the product data sheet dated 03/05. Has it been changed/reformulated/updated? I don't know. If you read the AMSOIL bottle or web site, the wording is (on the bottle): Recommended for all domestic and foreign gasoline and diesel engines specifying any of the following: Then comes the laundry list. The bottle I have has a few minor differences in the listing--I don't know which is more up-to-date, but I know AJ doesn't throw away labels.

 

[Pablo]

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Strange that none of the AMSOIL dealers says a peep!

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mori - cheese I just saw this thread, give me a chance. Sometimes I think Amsoil doesn't even read the Euro specs other times I think they concentrate purely on the performance portions and don't get hung up on up which portion they don't meet if they think a spec is "better than". For example, the HTHS is probably very close to 4.2, so they don't give a hoot for any spec requiring a HTHS less than 3.5.

 

[moribundman]

Pablo, it's not about (how often have I said that by now?) what ratings and specs AMSOIL actually meets (Although it would be nice to know!), but it's about whether or not AMSOIL AFL 5W-40, like Michel Wan claims to know (he says he informed himself -- source not revealed, but AMSOIL assumed), does supposedly meet VW 502.00 (ACEA A3 -- normal HTHS) and also VW 503.00 (ACEA A5 -- low HTHS), which are mutually exclusive ratings. Dat's all. Let me condense the question. Does AMSOIL AFL 5W-40, according to AMSOIL, meet either ACEA A3 and ACEA A5 or VW 502.00 and VW 503.00? There can be only a yes or a no answer.

 

[Pablo]

I don't know. My "guess" is 502/A3........ I will ask them directly.

 

[moribundman]

Thank you, sir.

 

[Pablo]

TTT I have received no answer as of today. I will chase next week.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Let me condense the question. Does AMSOIL AFL 5W-40, according to AMSOIL, meet either ACEA A3 and ACEA A5 or VW 502.00 and VW 503.00? There can be only a yes or a no answer.

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I've pointed this out before, but I don't think Amsoil ever states that their oils actually meet any specs (other than their own internal ones). The wording for their 5w40 European Formula is typical:

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AMSOIL Synthetic 5W-40 European Motor Oil is recommended for applications specifying the following:

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This wording is followed by a long list of ACEA and European OEM specs. Now compare the wording found on the Mobil 1 web site:

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Mobil 1 0W-40 meets key industry and car builder specifications for:

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This wording is followed by a long list of most current European OEM specs, as well as ACEA and API specs. Basically, what Amsoil is telling consumers is "Look, we've tested this oil ourselves and determined it is perfectly suited for applications that require the following specs." That is NOT the same thing as actually testing the oil per the protocols set out in those specs and passing the tests.

 

[Pablo]

Fair enough, G-man, except the last sentence. Can you say they haven't been tested to the protocols and passed? Of course they are tested. Are they tested by ACEA? No. Are they tested by VW? No. I just will add that they farm out some of the tests as well.

 

[LarryL]

We're lucky to have the Amsoil dealers that we do on this web site. In our neighborhood there is not one Amsoil dealer that knows what an ACEA rating is. The phrase I get is, that Amsoil meets all 'those specs', and is the best oil there is, period. In asking an Amsoil dealer about an application, I did not get to finish my question before I was told that the details were not important, that Amsoil can do it all. This kind of stuff makes the web site just that much more important, if one wants answers. I know that all dealers are exposed to the information. Many are called, but few hear the bell. I'm glad Pablo is here, for us to throw questions at, but don't tell him I said so. By the way Pablo, have you asked them to put a 'last updated' date on their info, so, incase they update the site, this year, we will know?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Can you say they haven't been tested to the protocols and passed?

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It's not up to the consumer to prove that the oils haven't been tested, it's up to Amsoil to prove that they have. And the way to do that is to say flat out "This oil MEETS ______ ." (Fill in the blank with your favorite spec.) You should get a job with CBS news.