Quote:Wrong. M1R is used by a lot of NASCAR people. It has a ton of ZDDP in it. Borate esters in conjunction with low levels of ZDDP seem to be showing improved performance over just high levels of ZDDP. Amsoil and Motorcraft are two examples that use this approach.
SM, may be the reason I heard nextel cup cars stoped using mobil 1 a few years ago.
Reduced levels of ZDDP in SM oils - ISSUE or NOT
- Thread starter glenncof
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Quote:Do you have any documentation of the 600,000 ppm figure. I thought the Crane additive was just re-labeled GM EOS, which has ~6500 ppm Zn. I've been told that pure PCMO additive pack is about only 20,000 - 30,000 ppm Zn.
But I am thinking about switching to CraneCams cam break in lube, some one on here ordered a VOA and it tested some thing like 600,000 ppm of Zink. What ever is in there must be mostly ZDDP or ZDP. One bottle should be enough for 3 or 4 oil changes.
Quote:Exactly which NASCAR people are using M1R? And what credible evidence do you have to show that they are? P.S. A claimed conversion with someone supposedly in the know doesn't count.
Wrong. M1R is used by a lot of NASCAR people.
Quote:This is not the article I was looking for but it states the same thing. In 2003 XOM's survey found that 74% of NASCAR was using Mobil 1. Marketing guy from Redline actually said the same thing. They are very involved with NASCAr. This was of course over 3 years ago. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Drivers_Edge.aspx
DISCONTINUED - The recommended replacement products are Mobil 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50. Team Penske, West McLaren Mercedes, Porsche, Mopar Performance, Corvette Racing and an incredible 74 percent of NASCAR drivers trust Mobil 1 technology to protect their racing engines. Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30, specifically designed for exceptional performance and protection in NASCAR engines, is now being made available to consumers.
I think the jury is still out on this, despite those that think the debate is over.
ALL of the top racing oils (RL/M1R/JGR/Maxima) all use very high doses of ZDDP. Dave from RL said they are at a breaking point with lowering it any further. For regular cars, the boron + ZDDP seems to work better but for these extreme applications who knows.....427 unless you are a closet formulator or work for a race team, the ball is in your court to prove otherwise.
"Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30, specifically designed for exceptional performance and protection in NASCAR engines, is now being made available to consumers."
That must be the "lab blended stuff" that I heard they went to. The way I heard it was they were useing off the shelf M1 for a long time, then they stoped and went to some mysterous lab blended oil.
I saw the CraneCams cam break in oil addtive VOA on here a long time ago, I was still over in japan. I just searched for it in the VOA section but did not come up with any thing.
I just figured it had so much zink that they couldn't test it right and that there wasn't realy 600,000 PPM.
Is this M1R for sale yet and is there any chance any one knows what a VOA might look like?
Is M1R back on the market where normal consumers can get it? I thought they quit selling the stuff to the public a year or so back??? 
So they don't use off the shelf mobil 1. And they sure as heck will never use SM rated mobil 1.
I guess MX4T or V-Twin will have to do for us preformance minded people.
It could have been a nice ad promo.
I still don't like the though of spining my flat tappet cam at 3500 rpms (7000 crank RPM's) on SM oil.
Quote:Definitely. Also, check www.avlube.com. They might have Mobil 1 R (NASCAR oil).
I guess MX4T or V-Twin will have to do for us preformance minded people.
Found that VOA for M1R.
Its a lot like MX4T, in the way it has tons of Zn and P. It should have a SG,SH rating. Nothing even close to SM.
Quote:This is marketing blather. "incredible 74 percent of NASCAR drivers trust Mobil 1 technology to protect their racing engines." Same as Exxon-Mobil's basestocks claim. Coached in words to bamboozle the simpletons.
Quote:This is not the article I was looking for but it states the same thing. In 2003 XOM's survey found that 74% of NASCAR was using Mobil 1. Marketing guy from Redline actually said the same thing. They are very involved with NASCAr. This was of course over 3 years ago. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Drivers_Edge.aspx
DISCONTINUED - The recommended replacement products are Mobil 1 0W-40 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50. Team Penske, West McLaren Mercedes, Porsche, Mopar Performance, Corvette Racing and an incredible 74 percent of NASCAR drivers trust Mobil 1 technology to protect their racing engines. Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30, specifically designed for exceptional performance and protection in NASCAR engines, is now being made available to consumers.
Quote:Yes...for racing engines. Look up the cam specs...flat tappets, huge lobes, super high spring pressures, 9000+ RPMs. A far cry from a stock LB9's or L69's valavetrain. Further, many race engines are continually rebuilt and thus are continally breaking in new valvetrain components, the most critical time for having the right amount of AW/EP protection. Study the above for a moment, buster. I think this is like the third or fourth time I pointed out the above differences to you.
ALL of the top racing oils (RL/M1R/JGR/Maxima) all use very high doses of ZDDP.
Quote:427, I don't disagree. I'm not really interested all that much in this topic being I don't race or have that type of engine design.
Yes...for racing engines. Look up the cam specs...flat tappets, huge lobes, super high spring pressures, 9000+ RPMs. A far cry from a stock LB9's or L69's valavetrain. Further, many race engines are continually rebuilt and thus are continally breaking in new valvetrain components, the most critical time for having the right amount of AW/EP protection.
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Does anyone offer an additive or oil specifically designed or approved for radical cam/spring rate break in?...Without being loaded with ZDDP?
Rickey.
Quote:I came across this at Hughes Engines, read the last sections on molybdenum carbamate. Disclaimer: I don't race so I assume they know more than I do but I would not consider what they write as conslusive. www.hughesengines.com/general/techArticleDetail.asp?articleID=1000039
Does anyone offer an additive or oil specifically designed or approved for radical cam/spring rate break in?...Without being loaded with ZDDP?
Quote:
The Japanese have better (slicker) oils that still protect flat tappet cams, they are good enough that they can even improve fuel mileage and protect that ‘cadillac’ thing. With all the pressures from the environmentalists on our so-called elected representatives in Congress, along with $3.00 a gallon gasoline, the oil companies are doing lots of research on improving oils to catch up with the Japanese. One of the additives that may prove to be the answer is called molybdenum carbamate. This moly is soluble so it mixes with the oil and stays in suspension. It is very slippery like its cousin the gray stuff and it actually sticks to, or plates up, on metal parts as opposed to zinc phosphate, that does not stick to the metal. In the start and stop situations that our cars go through it is actually better than zinc phosphate. Some race only oils may have super high amounts of the zinc phosphate that is fine for a 500-mile race where the engine is never shut off.
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