Redline - SM Update

[buster]

I called RL and asked Dave whether RL will meet the new SM spec. He said the bottles will have the SM label on them. I then followed up and said "so your lowering then Phosphorus in your oils?" He said "No......because we don't submit our oils to the API for testing."

I found that to be odd. Most likely the label will then contain wording like Amsoil uses. RL seems to be using out dated chemistry other then the poly basestock and moly. Very few oils contain as much ZDDP as RL. Mostly racing oils. Just surprised they havn't revamped their street oil linup to be more up to date.

 

[TallPaul]

I don't know why they would bother to put SM on the label, when the zddp would be more at an SH level. They probably should just say it meets SM engine protection spec.

Not that I am an advocate of low zddp levels (I have a 6 bottle stash of 4500 ppm zddp CD-2 additive), but it would be interesting to see a Redline oil that meets all the SM specs. What with about 50% ester (my guess), you would think they would have an easy time of it.

 

[Winston]

So does that mean that the oil never truly met the API SL rating either? Did they just stick an SL lable on the older oils without submitting for API testing?

 

[ted s]

sounds illegal.

 

[Ray H]

I don't know whether the API's rating system has the force of law behind it. In any event, it would be up to the API to initiate action, either criminally or civilly if they felt their rating system was being abused. They haven't done so. Could there be a reason?

 

[Johnny]

They can put and say anything they want to on their labels, what they cannot do is put the API donut on the back label with the same wording API uses. If they did that without API testing and approval then API could take them to court.

 

[Paranoil]

I've noticed something similar on bottles of Castrol Edge. I don't know if this is because of the phosphorus content, although unlike the SLX & SLX Longtech, the tech spec for Edge does not state 'low phosphorus.'

Anyway, the wording of the tech spec on Castrol Edge 0W-30 is:

"Meets the engine test requirements of API SM"

 

[buster]

The P limit for SM is around 750ppm I believe. RL doesn't seem to be fond of this yet their seems to be many new chemistries working very well. I'm surprised actually RL isn's using "cutting edge" chemistry.

 

[JAG]

Shame on them. That's a very misleading thing to the consumer. But then again, they've been misleading about many things all along. The worst of them is incompatibility of some of their products with some very common vehicles. That's what happens when a company strays from standards and doesn't have the revenue to conduct massive amounts of compatibility testing. Kind of like buying Moonshine from Billy Bob down the street. It's your risk.

 

[bulwnkl]

For a long time now (always?) Redline has taken the same basic tack as Amsoil: Our oils meet the performance specs of and are recommended wherever an oil of that spec is called for. That's not new. Have they ever carried an API donut? I don't recall seeing one in the past 5 or 6 years (I didn't use their products before then).

Is the Phos level even a part of SM, or is it only a part of GF-4? An article I read somewhere gave me the impression that it's only part of GF-4 (compliance with which is, I believe, necessary to certify and carry the donut).

 

[buster]

JAG, I sometimes think you are right! I don't think their HT/HS is right either, but that is a different story.

 

[MGBV8]

Buster

The HTHS of Redline considering ester content appears to be reasonably in line to other ester oils

Redline
5w40 4.6
10W40 4.7
15W50 5.8

Motul 300V

5W40 4.51
15W50 5.33

Silkolene PRO S 5w-40 = 4.07cp

Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 = 5.11cp

Silkolene PRO R 15w-50 = 5.23cp

 

[SSDude]

Screw the API!! Who needs that doughnut?

 

[LCAM]

HI MILAGE OIL do not meet API specs.But any oil mixer, that take a decent SM PCMO and load it up with loads of extra additives.The end product is no longer speced for API APPLICATION.So who's kidding who here.

 

[Mr Nice]

Johnny,

How much does it cost (testing) to get an API certification? I know its not cheap.

 

[Highroller]

Yeah who needs api! And... who needs our catalytic converters! haha

 

[Extreme-Duty]

bulwnkl,

I think you are right. It is ILSAC GF-4 that requires a low phosphorus content. Some HDEO meet API SM. Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5w-40 is API CI-4+/SM licensed....

Licensed engine oils


....while the data sheet still says SL.


Premium Blue Extreme

However, the sulfated ash content of the API SL version is 1.6% and I doubt it contains less than 750 ppm P.

Why are oil companies developing low ash/low P oils? I would suggest to design "normal" engine oils that reduce oil consumption instead. The cat-converter catches oil additives only if the engine burns oil. The same for piston deposits! Low oil consumption = long engine and cat life + low pollution.

I would not hesitate to use a " normal P" engine oil in a new car under warranty. OK, if the cat converter goes, then you have to pay it yourself.

Low P oils are intented to protect catalyst converters and not to warm the hearts of people who want to keep their car "forever", too bad ILSAC!

Only my 2 cent..

 

[buster]

I guess I'm kind of surprised RL isn't using more up to date chemistry. They seem to be relying on ZDDP and probably bc it's cheap. Even Amsoil now meets the 700 P cap.

 

[Winston]

quote:

---

Yeah who needs api! And... who needs our catalytic converters! haha

---

Cars have had catalytic converters long before API SM came around. Cats do not immediately "ASPLOAD" when they see SL oil.

Oh, unless it is an Audi that burns the MFG. acceptable 1qt per 1k miles.

 

[bruce381]

Buster Said:

"I guess I'm kind of surprised RL isn't using more up to date chemistry. They seem to be relying on ZDDP and probably bc it's cheap. Even Amsoil now meets the 700 P cap."

Wrong they use cutting edge additives trust me.

They can blend anything so I'd guess if they still run high ZDDP it maybe because they are known for bullet proof oil and if you want a stylish low ash, low ZDDP, lower perfromance oil use M1.

There market maybe more geared for max HP than "street" mom and pop cars thats up tho them.

Me I think ZDDP at 1,000-1,200ppm is the lowest I'd use but if I went lower to 700ppm I'd use at least 500ppm MDTC and possibly some boron at 500ppm.

But then RL may come out with a low ZDDP oil for the street crowd BUT since they are not a warranty oil why down grade?

bruce