redline and royal purple

Messages
3,073
Location
moutain country
i was told today from BG inc. tech engineer that royal purple is an excelent blender they use superior quality 100% additive package and base oils both 100% sysnthetic base oil isiso-paraffinic diluents..where as redline is a mediocre blender...he also said amsoil and mobil 1 are excellent..all this is based on what the insides of blenders and where they get the additives and quality of synthetic base oils...maybe this is why we are seeing poor oil anal. on redline?...he knows about schaeffers but wwas not familer with theirs products...conclusion: if you use a synthetic use mobil 1 or delvac 1,amsoil,royal purple,he said there are alot of good oils out there but these are the absolute best..redline is a good company but their product no where come nears the high quality of synthetics as the aforementioned oils.....your opinions? molekule?
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
I am no expert, but if you look at the UOAs, neither Redline nor Royal Purple have looked all that great. In fact, Royal Purple has not looked as good as Redline. Redline did have at least one great UOA. I can't think of a single great UOA from Royal Purple. Both of these motor oils are apparently well known in racing circles, but neither has shown great results here overall. People make excuses for Redline all the time. And I cannot think of a single UOA for Royal Purple that has been outstanding. Some of the best UOAs for synthetic oils have been UOAs that involved Amsoil, Mobil 1, and the German Castrol.
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
The reason we do VOAs and UOAs here is to try to find out what the good motor oils are. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we use motor oils that do not show good results in UOAs. I had been using Valvoline motor oil before I discovered this web site. Do you think I am going to use Valvoline conventional motor oil? Not based on the UOAs I have seen so far. Now, I rather liked Valvoline MaxLife and Valvoline makes some oil supplements that might be useful. But after I saw the UOAs of Valvoline conventional motor oil, I started to use Chevron Supreme. However, recently, I have been disappointed by Chevron, because in a freezer test it did not pour very well. From what I can see, Pennzoil and Castrol look like the best conventional motor oils. Based on VOAs and UOAs, I would have to say that Amsoil, Mobil 1, and the German Castrol look good. And the real dark horse may well be Schaeffer's, which can outperform the conventional motor oils and perform as well as the synthetics.
 
Messages
2,556
Location
Columbus Ohio
edhackett posted a couple of excellent UOA's on RP. But they were in a WRX, and there have been other excellent UOA's on that engine with other oils. Perhaps that engine isn't too picky. [I dont know]
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
Could it be that RP supplies BG with product? They do sell oil don't they? He needs to qualify his statements otherwise all they do is raise suspicions such as above.
 
Messages
2,045
Location
Sequim, WA
sbc, Yes, I think the UOA's on my WRX are outstanding, when you subtract the 1 ppm Fe from the virgin sample, max wear for any metals is 0.8 ppm per 1000 miles. A quick look at other UOA's for WRX's show that my wear is lower at 5K than most of the 3K samples of Mobil 1, Amsoil, and Red Line. I have been considering trying something else, but decided not to try to fix what ain't broke. Ed
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by sbc350gearhead: ED.....buddy.....If I had a UOA like yours, I would throw a party. [Big Grin] I wouldn't change a thing.
Agreed, if you find something that works extremely well for your engine and driving habits, stick with it, don't try and eek out another 0.5ppm less wear that may or may not happen. Royal Purple worked very well for Ed's WRX, so there is no reason he shouldn't continue using it. I wish I could've said the same for my wife's Honda, but it obviously was not a good match for her engine and driving style.
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by Mystic: ...And I cannot think of a single UOA for Royal Purple that has been outstanding...
Here are two more outstanding RP reports . They were RP 5w-20 in an '01 Explorer.
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
I did come across a web site where motor oils are discussed (and this web site may not exist anymore or else their server is down) where a guy discussed Royal Purple motor oil. He claimed that an organziation had tested several motor oils and that two motor oils (according to him) were above all the rest. The two were Royal Purple and Lubrication Engineer's. The guy said that there was a definite number one and a definite number two, based on the testing. But he would not say which motor oil tested number one. I got the impression that the Royal Purple had tested number one.
 
Messages
11,006
Location
Canberra ACT Australia
LE is no #2 in Falex testing 3 teeth of wear (ASTM D-2670) and pretty good in TFOUT (ASTM D-4742). Amsoil 15W40 CH-4 no #1 in FALEX with 2 teeth of wear. I have the sheets here in front of me, 26 oils tested. Oils to fail were Exxon XD-3, Quaker State FCI Universal HDX, Chevron RPM, and Mystik JT-8. Royal Purple Long Rider is excellent as well as Bobsoil S7000. Delvac 1 tops TFOUT in both CG-4 and CH-4 versions followed by RP Long Rider. Have to see if I can get updated tests for CI-4 stuff.
 

boxcartommie22

Thread starter
Messages
3,073
Location
moutain country
wow, i would love to see the whole list of these oils..what site can i get this on? also, royal purple and mobil told me that the tfout test is the most important test for testing an oil..
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
So many people use Falex and four ball for testing engine treatments and oil supplements that I don't even pay much attention any more to those kinds of tests-they can be very deceptive. Four ball really is good for grease testing and Falex tests can be misleading. I can think of a company that sells a PTFE additive whose product has survived for several days in four ball testing, while most stuff fails in minutes. And I once saw a Falex test where Mobil 1 failed before conventional motor oils. If a person went by that test, they would never buy Mobil 1 oil. But I am not familiar with TFOUT. What is that?
 
Messages
8,467
Location
Colorado
Never mind. I will answer the question myself. The TFOUT is an oxidation stability test. It also is not a good test for comparing different motor oils, according to people who actually do the testing. These various tests (Falex, four ball, and TFOUT) may give an idea how a motor oil will perform, but the real test is in engine sequence tests and fleet tests. I think the average person is going to get their best information at a web site like this. Forget trying to find some kind of list on the internet about how various motor oils perform in engine sequence testing and fleet tests. All of that stuff is kept secret by the oil companies. Peopel who sell oil supplements and engine treatments will continue to use Falex testing and four ball testing. There is stuff that would never be used in an engine that can look great in the Falex testing. And like I said, I know of a PTFE additive that has run several DAYS in the four ball testing-most stuff burns up in minutes. That does not mean that the PTFE additive is really good for your engine.
 
Messages
5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
I've stayed out of this thread because I wanted to see whare it was going without my meddling ... and it seems to have gotten a bit off course. I have some questions for boxcartommie22, the one who started it: "i was told today from BG inc. tech engineer that royal purple is an excelent blender they use superior quality 100% additive package and base oils both 100% sysnthetic base oil isiso-paraffinic diluents.." OK, exactly what is a "superior quality 100% additive package?" And does "100% synthetic base oil isiso-paraffinic diluents.." mean. Some form of Group III oil? We know that their street grades are not 100% synthetic ... whatever that means these days (post 1997). "where as redline is a mediocre blender" Was he specific? Did he point to some error he thought Red Line was making with their formula? On paper it should be unbeatable although we're seeing some oils which are more consistent performers. Anyway, I'm not buying this assertion that Royal Purple is far superior to Red Line. Not for a second, at least not without better specifics. Talk to a bunch of SCCA racers and see which they prefer. Look at the UOAs on this site and try to take an average of the ones featuring these two brands. Can anyone name a less shear stable oil than Royal Purple ... even a Group I or II oil? [Roll Eyes] --- Bror Jace [ October 19, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Bror Jace ]
 

boxcartommie22

Thread starter
Messages
3,073
Location
moutain country
i agree with you i just asked while i was talking about the bg products and in that conversation i asked since being in the bussiness what and who makes the best synthetics of all the tech data of all the companies he said that there are alot of good oils out there he even said the oil that wal mart sells tech 2000 is a really good dino oil..he said if you want the very best then amsoil, royal purple, mobil are the very best synthetics...bg has nothing to do with these oils..he said royal purple uses an extremely high grade of additives and synthetics and are excellent blenders as with amsoil and mobil...iam learning too so i just read and listen...i have also read couple of years ago in lube news available to engineers and tech.s that royal purple does not cut any corners...he said don't get me wrong redline is a good company but they are not the very best in his opinion..so one can take that how you want...
 
Messages
948
Location
Kyiv, Ukraine
quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: LE is no #2 in Falex testing 3 teeth of wear (ASTM D-2670) and pretty good in TFOUT (ASTM D-4742). Amsoil 15W40 CH-4 no #1 in FALEX with 2 teeth of wear. I have the sheets here in front of me, 26 oils tested. Oils to fail were Exxon XD-3, Quaker State FCI Universal HDX, Chevron RPM, and Mystik JT-8. Royal Purple Long Rider is excellent as well as Bobsoil S7000. Delvac 1 tops TFOUT in both CG-4 and CH-4 versions followed by RP Long Rider. Have to see if I can get updated tests for CI-4 stuff.
Unfortunately neither Falex or Almen Wieland, nor 4 balls, FZG or Timken tests allow to define absolute parameters of friction and wear or to chose the best motor oil for this or that engine. These tests are used to compare additive quality and mainly in transmission oils. Only real engine tests allow to evaluate motor oil performance.
 
Messages
3,216
Location
BC, Canada
Thankyou Primus. And for those bent on quoting shear rates, using UOA viscosity numbers for evidence when comparing long service/drain interval engine oils with short term racing lubricants: Please do not confuse lubricant thinning due to shear that is not thickened by oxidation, boil-off, and contaminant load... To: Short term racing lubricants that are more shear stable and resist thickening due to oxidation levels, than the long life lubricants, but do not contain low boilers that hide the fact.
 
Top