redline and easy driven cars

JHZR2 · Jul 12, 2004

Hi,

I just went through the whole redline oil thread, 4 pages.

What I'd like to know now from the experts is, how well can the redline basestock deal with condensation and water, acid buildup, and extended sitting?

If I use it in my 4.3L chevy, would it have superior cling to allow less wear at startup compared to other dino and synthetics?
Would the ester basestock deal better with acids if I wanted to just change the oil once a year (it doesnt get enough miles to do it that way)?
Does the ester basestocks work well with dispersing water that may condensate in the oil while sitting?
Would the high levels of zinc, moly, etc have any reason to be of concern in an engine that never saw more than 2000 RPM for the most part? The engine doesnt use any oil.
Are redline basestocks comaptible with all seals, or do they degrade or breakdown various sorts of seals?

many thanks,

JMH

buster · Jul 12, 2004

quote:

What I'd like to know now from the experts is, how well can the redline basestock deal with condensation and water, acid buildup, and extended sitting?

Good question, I'd like to know the same. RL does have PAO in it, as Molekule has said. Some will tell you different things. From Mobil's webpage, this is what they say regarding PAO vs POE:

quote:

Being completely compatible with conventional oils and gasoline engine seals.
Providing both low- and high-temperature performance.
Providing a stable oil in the presence of water and moisture.
Having anti-rust capabilities.

[ July 12, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

harrydog · Jul 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by JHZR2:
If I use it in my 4.3L chevy, would it have superior cling to allow less wear at startup compared to other dino and synthetics?

I think the answer is yes. The POE basestock does have an affinity for hot metal, so it does tend to cling more than other types. I would think this would indeed be beneficial at start-up.
I can't really answer your other questions, but if it's lightly stressed engine that's driven the way you describe, you'd be just as well off using Mobil, Amsoil, or some other synthetic that will cost you less than Redline. That's my opinion.

JHZR2 · Jul 15, 2004

anyone else? It seems that such a situation is common with people that have multiple cars, and that 'extra' usually gets the best care of them all.

harry: good point, the engine isnt stressed, could potentially do well without the expense of the redline oil, but I thought that the group V base is what made it special, and gave it a lot of the special metal cling properties. Mobil 1, etc wouldnt see that.

That said, the best UOAs for that engine were with pennzoil and GTX; it doesnt seem to like mobil 1, yet at the same time, it doesnt seem to like 40wt oils either, as they get a bit heavy and you can feel the drag, IMO.

Thanks,

JMH

harrydog · Jul 15, 2004

Where Redline seems to come into it's own is in a really high revving engine or a turbo engine that's driven hard. I believe it holds up better under extreme heat conditions. In an engine like yours, I'm sure Redline would be just fine, and if it gives you piece of mind to use it then the cost is worth it. On the other hand, I really doubt that Redline would do any better than a cheaper synthetic in your case. Don't get me wrong, I love Redline. I've been using it for over 10 years. But I only use it in the vehicles that I feel would benefit from it. For example, when I had a GMC Yukon with the 5.7 liter V8, I used Mobil 1. I just didn't feel that Redline would make any difference in that engine.
The clinging properties of Redline is something to think about though. I've noticed for example, that after sitting unused for a couple of weeks, my car will start up instantly. It just sounds as though it's already well lubricated. With other oil under the same circumatances, it always sounds a bit rough for the first few seconds.

Thatwouldbegreat · Jul 15, 2004

Redline may have some answers to your questions.

They are the experts, most of us here, like me, are mere enthusiasts.

I've never heard of a problem with Redline and seals.

My first thoughts are that the way esters can cling to metal may better protect an engine that sits unused for extended times.

Esters are said to have problems with moisture...but I don't know if Redline Ester base stocks are that sensitive.

Redline is exceptional in engines that are modified or driven hard.

But it is a very good oil with excellent additiveas that can be used up to 15,000 miles / 12 months and should be fine in an engine that sees very light duty.

The big question is do you need it? And will the ability of the Esters save enough startup wear to justify the cost?

I've always noticed just how smoothly our engines run on Redline. I guess this is the effect of the POE basestock and the moly. So between the Esters and the way the engine feels when you drive, you may feek Redkine is worthwhile.

But I think there are other options, perhaps, a HDEO like Shell Rotell T 5W-40 'synthetic' changed every 6 months might be as good, or better.

If you wanted to change only once a year, you might also look at Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30, which Amsoil rates for 3 times the maximum factory service interval or 12 months.

But an inexpensive 'synthetic blend' oil like Motorcraft 5W-30 changed every 3 months might work just as well.

Also, whichever oil and OCI you choose....I think that you can do a lot to keep the engine healthier just by driving the vehicle at least once a week for 20 minutes at highway speed.

And, the 'Italian Tune Up' method of higher revs on the entrance ramps seems to keep the rings and combustion chambers in good shape.

You might also use a good fuel injector cleaner like Redline, Chevron Techron, or Valvoline Synpower in the next to last fillup before an oil change.

TallPaul · Jul 15, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Thatwouldbegreat:
the 'Italian Tune Up' method of higher revs on the entrance ramps seems to keep the rings and combustion chambers in good shape.

And if nothing else, its a whole lotta fun!

BTW, If I run one quart of Redline with the rest dino oil, would that be enough to give me the metal coating/improved cold starts? If so, you could get dollar oil on sale and on average be paying the same as off the shelf blends, but have a much better mix (perhaps).

VaderSS · Jul 15, 2004

I have a a friend with a hopped up motorcycle that is only hopped up for bragging rights. He asks me once in a while to ride it, because it always runs better after I ride it, "like I stole it."

Marty · Jul 15, 2004

quote:

JHZR2:

I just went through the whole redline oil thread, 4 pages.

What I'd like to know now from the experts is, how well can the redline basestock deal with condensation and water, acid buildup, and extended sitting? ....

I personally do not use Redline because one my two cars gets driven little and parked a lot, and a polyolester (or diester as well) does not handle condensate as well as a polyalphaolefin.

I am also concerned about seals. Redline claims that they have an additive package that alleviates the swelling and deterioration that is inherent with polyolesters, but I'd rather someone else test that claim since our newer car is under warranty.

Which leads to me to the final issue: Redline is not an API licensee. While they recommend their street oils for API SL use, in fact they have not been certified and their oils don't bear the API starburst.

Were I racing, or driving an out-of-warranty vehicle more vigorously than I drive these days, my conclusions might different.

TallPaul · Jul 16, 2004

From studying the Auto-Rx site I recall that the maintenance dose (assuming you ran their cleaning regime first) of ARx will keep your engine clean and will ensure the seals stay in good shape.

So VaderSS, the "Italian Tuneup" really does work. All the more reason to have fun on freeway ramps.

As for API cert, it depends on how much you trust the oil company. Now the API donut is one thing, but frankly,

WARNING: BEGIN RANT

I avoid the starburst as an indicator of an inferior aspect of the oil, unless the oil can naturally meet the energy conserving test, but not a dino 10w30 which needs temporary viscosity collapse through the bearings (read low HT/HS) to pass the mileage test for the greenie "Energy Conserving" Starburst rating.

RANT OVER.

buster · Jul 16, 2004

I share the opinion of one of the BITOG experts in that RL is a racing oil first, extended drain oil second. RL is made to be extremely shear stable under racing conditions and provide the lowest friction possible/greatest wear protection possible. I think for most people, a M1/Amsoil is a better more cost effective choice. RL can be used for extended drains but it hasn't shown to be as durable as Amsoil/M1 IMO, over 10k miles. For racing, it's higher dose of POE (which is really the main difference between it and the other synthetics) and Moly make it a very shear stable and suitable racing oil.

JHZR2 · Jul 16, 2004

well, every weekend it gets driven typically at least 100 mi on the highway. Im not worried about it in that regard. Its more the sitting inbetween.
I really got the idea because all the UOAs for the 4.3 using mobil 1 are not that great, and it seems that M1 isnt necessarily the best choice for this engine. 5w-40 tends to make itself noticable in this engine, which makes me think that these engines are really designed for a mid weight (or dino) xw-30 oil.

I havent seen much about amsoil in these engines, thus my lack of thought about using it. I like that they have a diesel additive package in a 5w-30. I also would like to change the oil once a year and have piece of mind. At less than $7/qt, I dont mind paying for the redline, amsoil, mobil1, etc.

Pennzoil seems to really get along with these engines, but I want the cleanliness that synth provides, and also, Im not sure that I trust a dino oil sitting in the sump for a year.

Thanks,

JMH

mf150 · Jul 16, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
I share the opinion of one of the BITOG experts in that RL is a racing oil first, extended drain oil second. RL is made to be extremely shear stable under racing conditions and provide the lowest friction possible/greatest wear protection possible. I think for most people, a M1/Amsoil is a better more cost effective choice. RL can be used for extended drains but it hasn't shown to be as durable as Amsoil/M1 IMO, over 10k miles. For racing, it's higher dose of POE (which is really the main difference between it and the other synthetics) and Moly make it a very shear stable and suitable racing oil.

Red Line has a race oil line, but Red line also has a street application...for street use.

Jason8691 · Jul 16, 2004

I used Delvac 1 and Redline's 5W40 in my 4.3L. I never noticed a difference in the performance of the engine, and gas mileage was the same as with thinner oils. With those heavier oils all I noticed was slightly higher oil pressure. I would red line it on a regular basis too, it never used a drop.

buster · Jul 16, 2004

quote:

Red Line has a race oil line, but Red line also has a street application...for street use.

I know, but I still think their street oils are designed more for racing. They are formulated the same as their racing oils minus the detergents.

Bruce T · Jul 30, 2004

mf150, I think Buster is saying that Red Line's street engine oils are also designed for sporty driving. Those of us who have adopted this driving style don't officially call it "racing," we use euphemisms like "enthusiastic driving."

Buster is contrasting RL to oils designed for extended drain intervals (high mileage). The high mileage crowd thinks the speeders are both foolish and wasteful. We call them conformist sheep. Haha, can't we all just get along?

Both approaches are completely valid, as long as you choose an oil that matches your particular driving style.

[ July 30, 2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]

poison · Jul 30, 2004

So if my driving style is "enthusiastic", I would be a candidate for Redline, whereas if I were a gas mileage freak, Delvac would be better?

What if a 'sporty' driver used Delvac?

buster · Jul 30, 2004

quote:

So if my driving style is "enthusiastic", I would be a candidate for Redline, whereas if I were a gas mileage freak, Delvac would be better?

What if a 'sporty' driver used Delvac

IMO, RL's biggest advantage over other synthetics is it's shear stability. So if your beating the **** out of your car say over a 8k mile run, RL is more likely to remain it's original viscosity where as oils like Amsoil/M1 would thicken/shear. In terms of wear, I see RL being no better then Amsoil/M1/Synergyn or Delvac.

Marty · Jul 31, 2004

quote:

buster:

quote:

Click to expand...

IMO, RL's biggest advantage over other synthetics is it's shear stability.

And its biggest liability is the polyolester base stock if the vehicle is driven little and sits for long periods.

sxg6 · Jul 31, 2004

quote:

And its biggest liability is the polyolester base stock if the vehicle is driven little and sits for long periods.

what happens if not driven or sits long?

redline and easy driven cars

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