Redline 5w20, 2800 miles Subaru 2.5L w.45k

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Does anyone know if Wearcheck Canada gives a false positive glycol test for this oil? I did have to add a couple of cups of coolant mix (zerex G-05) over the past 6 months. Wearcheck did not have this oil in their fluid database.

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2001 Subaru Legacy

2005/02/14, 2004/06/13, 2003/09/25

4500 km Redline 5w20, Mobil 1 0w20/0w30 mix 11123km, 7926km Wal Mart recycled 10w30

Nov-Feb, Dec-Jun, Jul-Oct



Fe 6.6 12 5.3

Cr 1.1 1.4 0.8

Ni 0 0 0

Ti 0.1 0 0

Ag 0.5 0 0.3

Al 7.1 6.4 2.8

Pb 4.7 1.6 0

Cu 2.8 1.9 3.0

Sn 0.1 0 0

Si 14 11 9.9

Na 15 5.7 0

K 1.5 0 0

B 16 133 3.0

Ba 1.1 0.2 0.4

Mo 560 67 1.2

Mg 10 29 11

Ca 2805 2709 1969

P 1203 771 850

Zn 1329 1009 970

S 5022 1938 3052

Mn 3.0 77 116 (no more MMT in the gas?)

V 0.3 0 0

Fuel -- -- 0

Gly POS -- neg

Oxi 114 82 42

Nit 14 63 31

Sul 78 73 52

TBN 5.48 5.22 4.40

Kv40 -- 52.8 --

Kv100 9.2 10.2 10.4

VI -- 185 --

H2O -- neg neg


I'm awaiting a response from Dave at Redline, regarding the +ve glycol. The Na, K, and B seem to be ok, so maybe it's a false +ve. But I'm not really sure what elements are used in Zerex G-05. Does anyone know what elements are found in this coolant?
 
There is some elevation of the sodium and potassium. I would be concerned about coolant somehow getting into this sample. Another UOA will tell for sure if you have something to worry about or if this is a harmless anomaly. Considering the sodium was begining to inch up last time, I would be there is a good chance of a problem.
 
My guess is that if they detected glycol you probably have a leak. Its not bad judging from the numbers. I'd run another cycle and/or have Terry evaluate.
 
The thing that bothers me with Mobil 1 is the Fe in some cases. With RL, it's the Pb. Not sure what to make of this. I'd follow up like your doing.
 
You have a coolant leak! RL does not register a false for glycol at all! Good thing you have Redline in the crankcase since no oil protects better dureing coolant leak then Redline!
 
Dave wrote back, saying that Na, K, and Si are within normal range, but boron should be zero for this oil. Also, the oil should not give a false positive for glycol.

The previous oil was Pennzoil 5w30. I found a 10w30 and 5w20 VOA and they have about 60 and 70 ppm boron. My engine would have to hide more than a quart of oil to have that much boron carry over from the previous fill. But if the pennzoil had 200+ ppm boron like some of the Mobil 1's, this might be normal.

Maybe I should add tracer element like strontium to my coolant, and see if it shows up in the oil. Unfortunately, there's only 875 miles left on the warranty.

This car had it's first head gasked leak at 18,000 miles, and the night after I got it home from the dealership, a piston broke in pieces. They installed a new short block. The piston slap on this one is very loud in winter time, and now the head gaskey might be leaking. I will do a CO sniffer test tomorrow, and look for bubbles in the overflow tank. This is how I diagnosed the previous head gasket leak.

There's a recall on my car that I haven't done yet, where they add a bottle of radiator stop leak to the coolant, to seal up the leaking head gaskets. This is Subaru's way of patching a bad design.

I dumped the oil because it was getting dark earlier than normal, and because I want to take the car in to let them listen to the very loud piston slap. I want to have 5w30 in the engine at that time.

Fe, Cr, Al, Pb, and Cu are all up on a per mile basis. I wanted to see if the engine could safely use 5w20, but now I don't know what to make of it, since the glycol might have elevated the wear metals slightly. The manual specifies SAE #30 and greater oils for this car, so I was experimenting.

[ February 15, 2005, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: oilyriser ]
 
You're in a semi-pickle. Your UOA shows coolant, which naturally has nothing to do with viscosity, but you used an oil not recommended. Any slick service manager or regional factory rep will probably attempt to use that to discount any claim.

Hassle.
mad.gif


You should only have to report the presence of coolant (you have proof) for any claim after the warranty period expires. That is, you need to get that recall performed and then plan on submitting a claim later when it progresses to a bona fide failure (continued coolant in the UOA).
 
I'm lucky to have found a good dealership-- C&C Motors, in Whitby. They replaced my first leaking head gasket, after witnessing external leakage. They weren't too happy to see my car again the next day, with a broken piston, but were able to get a new short block installed within two weeks.

The Redline 5w20 had a viscosity of 9.2 cSt, while SAE #30 begins at 9.3 Also, many petroleum 5w30's will thin to #20 range after a short while, so the engine is designed for this. The hedgasket isn't a moving part, so there whould be no problem. At least it isn't *supposed* to be a moving part.

I found an idea on the net, about checking the head bolts for proper torque, in cases of leaking gaskets. Maybe that would help. The engine has never been overheated, so warping should not be the cause of any leaks.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
You're in a semi-pickle. Your UOA shows coolant, which naturally has nothing to do with viscosity, but you used an oil not recommended. Any slick service manager or regional factory rep will probably attempt to use that to discount any claim.

Hassle.
mad.gif


You should only have to report the presence of coolant (you have proof) for any claim after the warranty period expires. That is, you need to get that recall performed and then plan on submitting a claim later when it progresses to a bona fide failure (continued coolant in the UOA).


As mentioned the viscosity is just about a 30 wt. I don't think this will cause a problem. You have the documentation that there is a leak, which is a good thing.
smile.gif
 
According to the other Redline UOA's I've been perusing all morning, it's not all that unusual to find the glycol in the oil. It may not be coolant in your oil, those two cups could have just boiled off or dripped out the radiator's drain cock.

And on the Potassium level.

Redline's VOA's all seems to show Potassium as an additive from the beginning--in 25 to 27 ppm.

What does potassium do in the add pack? Somebody help me here...

I do note that after even a short run, that 25 to 27 ppm of potassium in Redline seems "all used up."

You chemical types--how does potassium intereact with other metals--particularly LEAD.

Maybe that's the direction we should go in our attempts to understand why such a "good" oil continues to turn in BAD results on UOA's.

The recycled Wally's dino looks--on the face of it--as if it beat the Redline quite handily...
tongue.gif


Dan
 
The boron is probably from the previous Pennzoil 5w30 SM I had in there. The glycol was probably a false positive.

I have no problem using Wal Mart's recycled oil, but I wish it was as cheap as the Supertech is in the US, instead of c$1.56/L.
 
Go to your dealer. Subaru has a recall/TSB for the 2.5L engines, some of which have head-gasket leak problems. They have a coolant additive for cars that are not leaking yet. And for the cars which are already leaking and cannot be fixed with the additive, they will change the head gasket.
 
Thanks. I wanted to make sure the stop leak additive wasn't going to leak into the oil.

I'd be eager to get the recall done if they offered me the 100,000 mile head gasket warranty like they do in the US.
 
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