Redline 10w-40-Motorcycle Engine

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903
Location
CA
Oil - Redline 10w40 The vehicle is a 98 Honda VTR1000. That’s a 2 cylinder, 1000cc, water cooled sportbike. The engine had 23,215 miles on it when the sample was taken. The oil had 4233 on it when sampled. Date oil changed, June 23 Date oil sampled, July 29 No oil was added before the sample was taken Oil filter - OEM Toyo Roki, changed June 23 Air filter OEM, make unknown, changed June 23 Riding conditions - canyon blasting, 90+mph cruising across Nevada and Utah Testing by Dyson Analysis Results / comments (values ppm,or %) copper 4 low iron 7 low chrome 0 low lead 0 low aluminum 8 low, mostly case alloy silicon 10 low, air filter is working well moly 511 redline additive sodium 9 additive Magnesium 20 additive/ case alloy Tin 1 low, good zinc 1330 additive, normal potassium 0 coolant additive,good phosphorus 1200 additive, normal Calcium 2440 additive, good water neg good fuel neg good glycol neg good soot 0 no coked oil or combustion byproducts,good oxidation 438 % Redline does this to our FT-IR probably closer to 44 %. equates to roughly 22 % on other scales. Nitration 49% good, equates to 25% on other scales. Sulfur 319 % Same issue as above oxidation, really 32 % not meaningful for gasoline engines. Use as a relative reading for later results. TBN 11 perfect, like new. VIs @100C 14.3 40w. new starts at 15.3 cSt so it sheared slightly. Dyson Analysis [ January 04, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
 
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11,006
Location
Canberra ACT Australia
Nice I think Redline 5/10W40 is standing out as my oil of choice for future use in both my vehicles but is expensive here. Only waiting on M1 0W40 SuperSyn and Delvac 1 analysis results from somebody as the only other possible choices. No 5/10W40 Schaeffers S7000 so thats out.
 

Jay

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1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
I'm confused by the lab's oxidation and nitration numbers. Why are they having trouble getting meaningful numbers? Any trouble with clutch slipping with Red Line?
 
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3,845
FT-IR has a problem with Redline on Oxidation and Sulfur. Artificially Peaks to limit then begins counting up by 100 units. Thats why Bob has stated in the past that he always see's high oxidation with Redline. Most Labs just publish #'s and make you guess what it means. Other values show that high oxidation is not an issue.
 

satterfi

Thread starter
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903
Location
CA
I would have liked to see accurate oxidation numbers but as Terry says Redline oil doesn't work to well with FT-IR. Dave Granquist at Redline confirmed that the esters in their oil gives meaningless figures for oxidation. He recommended keeping an eye on viscosity and TBN for overall condition of the oil. In any case, it looks like the oil is holding up. Jay - I do not have problems with clutch slippage. Honda HP4 use to have lots of moly in it and several Honda owners I know were using it without a problem. Without knowing that I might not have gone to Redline. [ August 06, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: satterfi ]
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Since this oil hasn't thickened, it is a safe bet that oxidation/nitration are pretty low. The TBN and nitration are inversely related, so if you have excessive nitration you will also see significant TBN depletion. As long as you get the TBN tested and know the viscosity, you can make an educated guess as to the oxidation/nitration levels and if they are a concern. This is an excellent analysis for a hard driven motorcycle engine .... TooSlick [ August 07, 2002, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: Ted Kublin ]
 

Jay

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1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
I agree that the oil held up very well. It could have gone much longer. Have you done any analysis on other oils for your VTR? I'm running M1 Delvac 1 which is a 5w-40 oil in my VFR but I've never done analysis on it.
 

satterfi

Thread starter
Messages
903
Location
CA
This is my first oil analysis. The oil is still in the bike. I'll check it again at 6k miles. I lost a lot of oil during the sampling process. I wasn't very careful on the amount of oil left in the drain pan or refill container. I had to add almost one quart to bring the level back up to maximum. So the next results will be scewed. I know someone who uses Delo 400 in his VTR, Goldwing and motorhome(a diesel). He rakes up the miles and likes it, so Delvac could only be better.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
Scatterfi, just be sure to tell the lab how much top-off oil you added in the interval. They should be able to adjust the results accordingly. --- Bror Jace
 
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2,095
Location
IL
Well I posted this yesterday.... I called Red Line and talked to Dave. He said the viscosity of 10w40 is 14.6. Web site info must be old....copyright 2000, think it's time for an update [Wink] ALSO I just got a VOA of it back and it was 14.3. .3 is just testing variances So I don't think this oil sheared at all [Cool]
 

satterfi

Thread starter
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903
Location
CA
Jason Thanks for the info. I was planning on using Redline 20w50 as top off oil since the orginal analysis showed some viscosity lose. I guess that's not a problem.
 
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2,095
Location
IL
No problem. I'd say this oil worked pretty impressively. As it has been in all analysis I have seen. Even Bror Jace had low wear metals---WITH A COOLANT LEAK. Are you going to run it longer next time? I'll also re-post the VOA here later today or sometime soon. Though I don't know if the spectrograph can be directly related to your analysis. It seems that Terry's and a couple others read low. Now maybe his is more accurate (but I am basing that on because oils that the mfr state has 0.10% Zn/P seem to show closer to 800ppm(.08%) on his. [I dont know]
 
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2,095
Location
IL
Oops, hit enter and for some reason it posted it instead of making new paragraph.... ...And for example your analysis shows less than half of the Ca that my VOA showed. Yours is used so of course it will have some depletion but I don't think it will deplete over 2600ppm. [Eek!] But I think I may also call the lab. They wrote 15w40 on the report when I clearly wrote 10w40 on the paperwork. Is it possible the just misread and gave me a report of 15w40 they already ran? That's pretty irresponsible if they did. They should run what I send no matter what it is. 15w40 is Diesel oil and would have the higher levels of Ca and Zn+P that it showed...Or maybe I'll call Red Line and see if the 15w40 has ~5100ppm Ca like my report... Anyway, I'll have it up later...
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Jason, The VOA you posted for Redline looked like their 15w-40 (CH-4) diesel formulation. It has a TBN in the 13-14 range, which explains the high levels of Calcium. The level of ZDDP also looked extremely high to me, but I haven't seen enough tests of this stuff to know if it is in the ballpark.
 
Messages
961
Location
Tacoma ,WA
quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: Nice I think Redline 5/10W40 is standing out as my oil of choice for future use in both my vehicles but is expensive here. Only waiting on M1 0W40 SuperSyn and Delvac 1 analysis results from somebody as the only other possible choices. No 5/10W40 Schaeffers S7000 so thats out.
Sprintman: I have put Delvac 1 in my car,(gasser) have 1200 miles on it at present. I am debating on whether I will do a 5000 mile Analysis or wait until 10000,( as I have the Gulf Coast bypass filter on and I am planning on 5000 mile changeouts of the filter..seeing as how many of you thought my 300o mile changeouts altered the 30000 mile run I had with thew Mobile 1) I will have 5000 on the oil in about 6 weeks...I will let you know if I decide to sample it ....heck maybe David Soloman will come up with more of those $8.00 kits:)
 
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11,006
Location
Canberra ACT Australia
deepsquat Did you run a full syn oil before D1? If not it will get dirty real quick. Diesels run very long interval with it so 5,000 miles should be easy. I'd be interested in the results!
 
Messages
961
Location
Tacoma ,WA
quote:
Originally posted by sprintman: deepsquat Did you run a full syn oil before D1? If not it will get dirty real quick. Diesels run very long interval with it so 5,000 miles should be easy. I'd be interested in the results!
The last 60000 miles have been run on synthetic..so the insides should be very clean.
 

satterfi

Thread starter
Messages
903
Location
CA
quote:
Originally posted by Bror Jace: Hey satterfi, did you ever re-sample this oil? I'd love to see results after 6,000 miles! [Big Grin] --- Bror Jace
No, I lost too much oil at the 4200 mile sample and added a lot of make up oil. I will sample the next batch at 6,000 miles.
 
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