Reconsider use of Mobil1????

[TooSlick]

Toyo4by4,

You have a mechanical problem here, so using a heavier oil is simply a bandaid. I suppose it's possible this engine is severly worn, but you'd really have to abuse a toyota engine to wear it out in 120k miles. I'd swear it's taken 60k for my tacoma to fully wear in the engine.

I'd also look at the crankcase vent system and make sure you aren't getting blowby that is pressurizing the crankcase. Check the bottom of the engine carefully for leaks as well.

If it turns out the engine is simply worn, then I'd run a 10w-40 synthetic like Redline or Amsoil. That should reduce your oil consumption by 50%-70% ....If you want to stick with Mobil, I'd recommend Delvac 1, 5w-40 over Mobil 1, 0w-40. D1 is thicker and more shear stable and it also evaporates less at high temps.

TS

 

[sprintman]

Patman purely cost. I'm thinking of getting analysis kit from Terry but cost will be horrendous with freight, GST, import duty or whatever else govt here can think of (bit like Canada I'm led to believe?). Many analysis results here lately see 30W users trying 40W and getting better wear figures. Last change I went from 30W to 40W and noise reduction was very noticeable. I know it's not scientific but to me noise is metal to metal contact = wear. Less noise = less wear. Maybe Molakule or somebody could comment?

 

[sprintman]

TooSlick your right about D1 having less 'evaporation'. Ron in Melbourne tested some the other night on his Timken, said evaporation basically zero. Castrol RS 0W40 another matter entirely. He's trying to find M1 0W40 SS today for testing tonight.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
Patman purely cost. I'm thinking of getting analysis kit from Terry but cost will be horrendous with freight, GST, import duty or whatever else govt here can think of (bit like Canada I'm led to believe?). Many analysis results here lately see 30W users trying 40W and getting better wear figures. Last change I went from 30W to 40W and noise reduction was very noticeable. I know it's not scientific but to me noise is metal to metal contact = wear. Less noise = less wear. Maybe Molakule or somebody could comment?

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Noise isn't always metal to metal contact though. Engines do make a normal amount of noise, and it's my understanding that thicker oils simply mask those normal noises more. So what you guys might think of as abnormal noises might not be causing more engine wear at all.

I believe Wearcheck has a lab in Australia, you might want to check that out. It would be interesting to see some of you guys do analysis. As always, I'm open to the possibility that thicker oils *might* protect better, but my hunch is that they won't.

 

[buster]

quote:

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thicker oils *might* protect better, but my hunch is that they won't.

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I'm thinking the same thing Patman.

The trend as everyone knows, most likely do to cafe, is thinner oils. I don't think the wt. has as much bearing as we sometimes think.

[ March 03, 2003, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[sprintman]

I wonder what viscosities you all would run without CAFE? I'd bet it would be in the 40's. And theres been plenty of 40W analysis here lately from previous 30W users, don't remember a single one as being worse, in fact all improved. And the standout results across the board here since I joined are Redline 5W40 (in a turbo too), M1 0W40 and last week I think a 15W50 mixed with some lower viscosity (can't remember brand). Also one recently posted with Auto-Rx maint dose was outstanding too but viscosity escapes me on that one. The results are there for all to see!

 

[Fillherup]

I posted an append to an older tread about a SAE report of HTHS and bearing wear( interesting articles section). My interpretation of the SAE report is that the knee curve of the HTHS considering wear is around a HTHS 2.6 point ( just like the 5W-20 oils of today). The wear does reduce as the HTHS get higher, but the point of diminishing returns seems to be around HTHS 3+. Not to mention reduced gas mileage. This all matches the current oils of today like Mobil1 5W-30, 0W-30, 10W-30 and 0w-20.

So my guess is that the oils of today depend more on modern boundary protection instead of HTHS to get the acceptable wear. In the past, this might not have been an option- don't know for sure. The trade-offs today might be perfectly acceptable especially if boundary conditions are no worst than a higher HTHS oil. The UOA reports seems to bear this out with some of the lighter oils.

When you add in the factor of better VII that do not thin, then this all makes even more sense. Since most oils dropped a grade anyway in the past. We have been testing 20W oils for years, I fear.

[ March 04, 2003, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Fillherup ]

 

[nick778]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
I wonder what viscosities you all would run without CAFE? I'd bet it would be in the 40's. And theres been plenty of 40W analysis here lately from previous 30W users, don't remember a single one as being worse, in fact all improved. And the standout results across the board here since I joined are Redline 5W40 (in a turbo too), M1 0W40 and last week I think a 15W50 mixed with some lower viscosity (can't remember brand). Also one recently posted with Auto-Rx maint dose was outstanding too but viscosity escapes me on that one. The results are there for all to see!

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I tend to agree with this. Outside the US, fuel is much more expensive and if anyone had reason to use fuel efficient fuels, it would be i.e., Europe. But you don not see xx-30 or xx-20 oils dominant the market anywhere except the US where CAFE rules. Does anyone really think the OEMS selling in the US market care if their engines last past warranty vs not being able to meet CAFE or fleet standards? It is more than curious that viscosity recommendations are higher outside the US for exactly the same engine in i.e., Europe where gas can go for $5/gallon.

 

[Patman]

I have bookmarked the three UOAs from here which I found the most impressive, and all three of them are with 30wt oils:


Schaeffer 10w30:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000377

Trop Artic 5w30:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000230

Redline 5w30:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000340

 

[TheTanSedan]

I live in a hot climate, and M1 15W-50 has worked great for me for a number of years now. Consumption was higher with 10W-40 dino (double), and this is on a lean-carb'd, 195F thermostat Chrysler V8 (383 cid) engine that is very detonation-sensitive. (That is, carb is leaner than stock, thermostat is 10F hotter, and radiator is undersized).

Changed old man's TBI 454 Suburban that pulls an 8000-lb trailer to same oil and his consumption also decreased.

First vehicle now has 135,000 miles and second has 190,000. Neither has had any engine work except timing chain replacements.

Likely, DELVAC is "better" but it isn't so easily found, nor is it price-competitive. I may try it on a new engine, or one of the Lubrication Engineer oils where I can track results from new.

 

[Patman]

Also, to be fair, I found another UOA which is totally amazing, but this one is with 10w50 oil:


http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000168


So in this case the thicker oil is definitely doing an amazing job!

I'd still like to see someone test out a bunch of different viscosities in various engines to see what the general trend is.

 

[Toy4x4]

Well I just had the PCV valve (and hose since it "turned" to plastic from the heat), had everything cleaned out (intake manifold, injectors, C chanmber, etc) and had the fuel filter changed. Air barely goes through the old PCV valve, same thing for the fuel filter. I can tell there is more pep to the truck. The weird thing is the truck was running smoothly before all this so there wasn't much change in that department. There was a difference, but not too much.
What angers me a bit is that I JUST had the 120K service done at the dealer and they didn't catch either. I saw an EXTREMELY EASY way to check if PCV valve is working so I can't see why THEY don't check it.
I just hope these repairs were the remedy to my oil burning problem. I should get better mpg, too.
Should the oil be changed after all that cleaner went through? It was only changed about 1500 miles ago.