Recommendation (Oct/'85) Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60

[gregnash]

Ok so here is all the information, I have spent the last week or two reading (IH8MUD member) and reading. There are lots of debates on what to use but with my "antique" flat tappet cam engine, and basically I need something with a higher ZDDP%. From my reading, the original oil used for these was SF rated oils so the ZDDP should be AT LEAST 1200/1100 for zinc/phosphorous to simulate that.

Now I haven't picked up the truck yet so I don't know what the original OCI or product used in the engine was but it has almost no rust and has lived in SLC,UT almost all it's life, so I figure I will start thing off right with good oil and a low OCI with testing at Blackstone. I live in Northern Nevada so we get temp swings from single digits in the winter to triple digits in the summer.

1. 1985 Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 (4.2L straight-6)
2. Originally SF rated, initially will start with 3k miles OCI
3. Carson City, NV (NV High Desert with Lake Tahoe in my backyard)
4. She's an FJ60 so she will not do more than 70mph! Easy driver and won't be going very fast with this thing.
5. Will mostly be a winter commute vehicle other than that she will be for dog hauling, mtb hauling, camping and the occasional fishing trip with fire road runs and some light wheeling.
6. No known issues. Will be replacing smog pump (no emission in my area or owners), leaky p/s pump and a few other odds-n-ends. Engine has approximately 175k with no rebuild.

With all this said, the reading I have been doing, and my analysts brain going full gear, I am thinking that my best bets for oil are going to be a 15W40 or 10W30 to cover the temp swings. Brands will be whatever I can get locally because I hate ordering stuff like this online. I know that I can get Rotella T/T6 and Delo 400 LE locally but wondering if there is something else I should look at (no Brad Penn or CAT DEO dealerships here). On top of that, what additive should I be using to up the ZDDP% or should I wait and do the first OCI and see how things are?

I appreciate the help and look forward to a long life with this truck.

 

[JHZR2]

The issue isnt just flat tappet cam, but one with high spring pressures. Ill doubt that this engine is anything special - any high performance mods? and so if not, there may be no big deal.

Do you want some extra ZDDP? sure. But 40wt oils have an "allowance" for a bit more ZDDP as compared to 20 and 30 wt oils, and HDEOs seem to have roughly an acceptable amount.

I dont think you can go wrong with T6 or Delo, particularly if you can get the 5w-40 Delo. You could likely get away with a 15w-40 HDEO, but that's not exactly my favorite. Id also check the ZDDP levels of Rotella T5 10w-30, which I imagine would be a good fit.

Two others that I'd consider are M1 HM 10w-30 and M1 HM 10w-40. Ive always had great success with M1 oils in toyota metallurgies.

What viscosity does the OM suggest? Can you post a picture of the OM chart on here?

While I wouldnt be the biggest fan of doing this, you can add a small dose of Redline Break-in suppliment, which takes the ZDDP up quite a bit. It would be a good option if something like T5 10w-30 was your choice oil, but was a bit too low on ZDDP for your liking.

Welcome!!!! We need to see pictures of your truck on here!!!

 

[Garak]

I can't say I'm terribly familiar with that engine family, but a 15w-40 or 10w-30 HDEO would be my first choice, assuming those viscosities are acceptable according to the manual, and they very likely are. If it were me, I'd be hesitant to use any ZDDP additives unless I were stuck using an SN/GF-5 PCMO.

There's a good chance you could find an HDEO with older specifications (i.e. CI-4+ or even CH-4). You likely just won't find it from SOPUS or XOM. There was a mention here in another thread of a Delo 0w-30 HDEO, I believe it was, with older diesel and gas specifications. Petro-Canada also has some offerings. Personally, I wouldn't be terribly worried about using a modern, CJ-4, though.

QS Defy is another option. Another one to consider would be Valvoline VR-1.

 

[Kuato]

What oil does the owners manual say to use?

That asked, I've got flat tappets in my 4.0 Jeep engine and have had good results with Amsoil, Valvoline and ST synthetic; all 3 gave very low readings of wear over the 5k test interval. I cannot give the same recommendation for Mobil 1, since the iron was more than double any other oil tested.

You mentioned T6; I haven't tested it but from everything read here it would be a good choice.

Sounds like a cool vehicle!

 

[Kuato]

Additional note-no additives were used in any of my tests.

Additional thought on viscosity....with desert morning cold temps, perhaps a 5w XXor even 0wXX might be a good option at startup.

 

[gregnash]

Ask and ye' shall receive!

Oils by renofizz, on Flickr

Here is BeBe (pronounced BB, like BB Gun)

HPIM1267 by renofizz, on Flickr

 

[Kuato]

Nice ride! I would go with the T6.


Can't believe they suggest a 20WXX down to 20*!!

 

[Kuato]

....I meant down to TEN* with a 20w50....craziness with today's oils.

 

[Garak]

My old Audi's manual chart was about the same. 15w-40 down to -15 C or thereabouts.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Garak
My old Audi's manual chart was about the same. 15w-40 down to -15 C or thereabouts.

I had some 15W40 in my old ATV last winter and it cranked over much slower in -5 -10C temps but it did start. It has started in something like -25C with 10W40 with a healthy battery, but I didn't push it with the 15W40.
This week I put some T6 5W40 so it should be happier this winter!

 

[Garak]

I tended to get rid of the 15w-40 by the time the -15 C hit. For that, I stuck to 5w-30, 10w-30, 5w-40, or even 0w-40.

 

[gregnash]

Thanks for the info guys. I will see about the Rotella T with a small amount of additive to start. Really looking for between 1400 and 1800ppm for ZDDP.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: gregnash
Really looking for between 1400 and 1800ppm for ZDDP.


I'd suggest you price out the VR-1 first, then, and compare it to the price of Rotella plus an additive. I have no idea what VR-1 goes for down there, so you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

[gregnash]

I haven't been able to find anywhere that stocks the VR-1 but from what I have seen it runs about $7-$9 a qt. I really want to find something good that is easily OTC so I don't have to run all over to find it or order online. From what I have been reading the Delo 400 LE, Rotella T/T6, and Valvoline Blue Supreme all have around 1200+ ZDDP starting out. From there I would just need to formulate how much additive to give it to boost it to the needed 1400-1800ppm.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: gregnash
I haven't been able to find anywhere that stocks the VR-1 but from what I have seen it runs about $7-$9 a qt.


That price is probably in the ballpark; others in your vicinity might have to chime in with respect to their experiences. I can't say for down there, but up here, the easiest place to get VR-1 is at Napa.

You might be able to get the older version of Delo 400 (the non LE type), which may have more ZDDP.

 

[gregnash]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gregnash
I haven't been able to find anywhere that stocks the VR-1 but from what I have seen it runs about $7-$9 a qt.


That price is probably in the ballpark; others in your vicinity might have to chime in with respect to their experiences. I can't say for down there, but up here, the easiest place to get VR-1 is at Napa.

You might be able to get the older version of Delo 400 (the non LE type), which may have more ZDDP.



yeah I checked the local NAPAs and they do not stock but can get it from "the warehouse" if I want to special order it. Just got word on my other forums that the Castrol has recent reformulated their EDGE oils to specifically work with flat-tapett style engines. Supposedly it is now consisting of 1300ppm ZDDP%. Question though is, the guys are saying it is not a full synthetic rather a class III. Why is this something important?

 

[3311]

Maybe 10w40 Defy is an option in addition to M1 10w40 and HDEO suggestions.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: gregnash
Supposedly it is now consisting of 1300ppm ZDDP%. Question though is, the guys are saying it is not a full synthetic rather a class III. Why is this something important?


It's not an issue, unless it bugs you to pay the current retail price for a non-PAO non-Ester oil. I don't think it's a big deal, as long as it does the job.

Which Edge oils were supposedly reformulated? 40 and 50 grade SN oils can have more ZDDP, but anything SN/GF-5 that's in a 30 grade (or other SN/GF-5 grade) will certainly not have 1300 ppm ZDDP.

What viscosity do you have your heart set on? If you choose a sensible viscosity, it would certainly help narrow your choices. As 3311 suggested, if you choose a 10w-40 and go for Defy, you're just about where you want to be, in around 1100 or so PPM (check around on the site, someone posted the correct answer before). QS also claims it to be a "more effective" type of ZDDP - take that for whatever it's worth. I'm going to try some Defy (5w-30) in my old F-150, and I'm not worried. Even a 10w-30 Defy would likely be fine. The Defy is a synthetic blend, by the way.

Other options are HDEOs, and as pointed out, they do come in all kinds of viscosities. With your climate, I'd be tempted to grab some conventional Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40, run it year round, and be done with it. That's also available in a 10w-30. If you're set on synthetic, there are things like Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 (no, it's not going to be too thin at all) and Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40. And those are going to be "fully synthetic" if you decide that's important. If you don't, there are other synthetic and synthetic blend options in HDEOs from the others, like Delo and Rotella.

Amsoil and Royal Purple also have some higher ZDDP options, both in HDEOs and PCMOs. For RP, you could check their HPS line. For Amsoil, check with Pablo here. He'd know exactly what you should use from that product line.

 

[3311]

They Defy in 10w40(SN) is 1200ppm Zinc, the other grades(5w20,5w30 & 10w30) are SL and come in at 1000ppm of Zinc.

Nice truck as well. Post some more pics!

 

[gregnash]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gregnash
Supposedly it is now consisting of 1300ppm ZDDP%. Question though is, the guys are saying it is not a full synthetic rather a class III. Why is this something important?


It's not an issue, unless it bugs you to pay the current retail price for a non-PAO non-Ester oil. I don't think it's a big deal, as long as it does the job.

Which Edge oils were supposedly reformulated? 40 and 50 grade SN oils can have more ZDDP, but anything SN/GF-5 that's in a 30 grade (or other SN/GF-5 grade) will certainly not have 1300 ppm ZDDP.

What viscosity do you have your heart set on? If you choose a sensible viscosity, it would certainly help narrow your choices. As 3311 suggested, if you choose a 10w-40 and go for Defy, you're just about where you want to be, in around 1100 or so PPM (check around on the site, someone posted the correct answer before). QS also claims it to be a "more effective" type of ZDDP - take that for whatever it's worth. I'm going to try some Defy (5w-30) in my old F-150, and I'm not worried. Even a 10w-30 Defy would likely be fine. The Defy is a synthetic blend, by the way.

Other options are HDEOs, and as pointed out, they do come in all kinds of viscosities. With your climate, I'd be tempted to grab some conventional Delvac 1300 Super 15w-40, run it year round, and be done with it. That's also available in a 10w-30. If you're set on synthetic, there are things like Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 (no, it's not going to be too thin at all) and Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40. And those are going to be "fully synthetic" if you decide that's important. If you don't, there are other synthetic and synthetic blend options in HDEOs from the others, like Delo and Rotella.

Amsoil and Royal Purple also have some higher ZDDP options, both in HDEOs and PCMOs. For RP, you could check their HPS line. For Amsoil, check with Pablo here. He'd know exactly what you should use from that product line.


I am really looking for a viscosity that I can run all year round, so probably either 15w40 or 10w30. The EDGE that I found is a new blend on their 5W50 only according to their "tech" on the live chat line. Really I am looking for something over the counter that I am not going to have to search for when I need to do a change (hence why I am leaning away from the Delo 400LE 15W40 from Costco).

And really the difference between synthetic and conventional is showing that with the right oil there will be minimal benefits to either so it is, again, whatever I can get my hands on. I have looked at the AMSOIL Z-Rod, Valvoline VR-1, and Royal Purple but they are not available locally and are close to $10/qt which I am not thrilled about paying. I may see if I can get my hands on the new EDGE 5w50 and do a VOA when I change the oil on it to see what the results are, got my test kit coming in the mail as we speak.