Recommendation for F80/F82/F83 M3/M4

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Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
So what is BMW using in its M-cars now? Their TwinPower Turbo LL-01 5W-30? Or did they go back to 10W-60?


0W30, alternate is 5W30.


I thought BMW's 0W-30 was the lower HTHS, LL-01 "FE", variant. I would be surprised if they used that in an M engine, but could be wrong.


Just going by what they say on the M4 forums.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1032422

Although, in the owners manual it recommends 0W30, apparently the dealer does not have it.
 
The owners manual for my F80 M3 states 0w30 or 5w30 but I have seen others where 0w40 is mentioned. Seems BMW has not been consistent with its manuals. Either way I dont think you can go wrong running any LL-01 oil. Virtually every dealer, at least here in the US, will fill the M3/4 with 5w30 when in for service as that is the standard BMW oil across virtually every model. I do an oil change between the factory recommended intervals and use the same BMW brand 5w30 to keep it consistent.

The car has an excellent cooling system and I have never read a report from anyone with higher than average oil temperatures.
 


If you look at the BMW M4 manual for international markets, you'll see they primarily recommend a 40w oil. I think this pretty much confirms that lighter oil requirements in the US are due to fuel efficiency standards not really engine protection.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly


If you look at the BMW M4 manual for international markets, you'll see they primarily recommend a 40w oil. I think this pretty much confirms that lighter oil requirements in the US are due to fuel efficiency standards not really engine protection.


There are many in the US whose manuals state 0w40 as well, which is why I mentioned above BMW's inconsistencies with its owners manuals. In any case, the manual further goes on to state an LL-01 oil should be used which is really no different than most other BMW's and encompasses all of the grades we have mentioned.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly

If you look at the BMW M4 manual for international markets, you'll see they primarily recommend a 40w oil. I think this pretty much confirms that lighter oil requirements in the US are due to fuel efficiency standards not really engine protection.



As industry employees have written on here, sometimes the manuals are inconsistent between regions because "that's what everyone is used to reading." In other words, if the car is spec'd for 0w20, but 10w40 is "the norm" in that country, they just put 10w40 in the manual because people would think 0w20 is a typo.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly


If you look at the BMW M4 manual for international markets, you'll see they primarily recommend a 40w oil. I think this pretty much confirms that lighter oil requirements in the US are due to fuel efficiency standards not really engine protection.

The reason why BMW is turning to lighter oils in the U.S. market is driving pattern of average American driver that consists of driving to work-grocery store-school pick up-back home. For everything else there is Southwest.
 
In simplified terms, older nat-asp M engines asked for the 10W-60 - new turbocharged ones use LL-01/LL-04.

How ironic then that the new BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60 oil is not meant for any turbocharged cars (except the 123d up to mid-2008).
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
In simplified terms, older nat-asp M engines asked for the 10W-60 - new turbocharged ones use LL-01/LL-04.

How ironic then that the new BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60 oil is not meant for any turbocharged cars (except the 123d up to mid-2008).


It is ironic. If I had a new M-car, I would still be using 10W-60 at the track.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: weasley
In simplified terms, older nat-asp M engines asked for the 10W-60 - new turbocharged ones use LL-01/LL-04.

How ironic then that the new BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60 oil is not meant for any turbocharged cars (except the 123d up to mid-2008).


It is ironic. If I had a new M-car, I would still be using 10W-60 at the track.


Why would you use 10w60 at the track? There has been no evidence that using the recommended grades from BMW is inadequate at the track. I think you would have a very sluggish car running that grade and risk damage.
 
Probably because traditionally on high G turns, high RPM, high heat, and other very demanding driving events, heavier weight oils have been more successful in keeping engines protected and oil pressures up.

Are the newest M engines of such radically new design that the same rules of thumb don't apply? Don't know.
 
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One example is say something like a Porsche GT3 which his a very track focused car, Porsche recommends all the way up to a 50w in their newest cars.
 
Originally Posted By: gatorfast
Why would you use 10w60 at the track? There has been no evidence that using the recommended grades from BMW is inadequate at the track. I think you would have a very sluggish car running that grade and risk damage.


Well of course standard LL-01 will work at the track, but it's not a racing oil. There is no one size fits all. 10W-60 WILL protect an engine better at the limits (high temperature, high pressure) than a thinner oil, but it's not as good for the street due to cold-start ability. Same goes for tires. There is no magic bullet.
 
Here's another example of where high performance engines might want to go with heavier weight oils. From the Ferrari F458 manual.
 
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Another reason manufacturers recommend heavier oils for extreme use-cases, is due to shearing down under high heat and stress. A 10W-60 oil will come out much thinner after a track session.
 
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^ that is true assuming track driving produces elevated oil temperatures. From what I have read about the F8x M3/4, no one has reported elevated oil temperatures at the track.
 
Originally Posted By: gatorfast
^ that is true assuming track driving produces elevated oil temperatures. From what I have read about the F8x M3/4, no one has reported elevated oil temperatures at the track.


I would bet it gets pretty hot considering it's a direct injected high compression dual turbo. Probably much better than their earliest 335i engines which suffered from way too high temperatures but I imagine the nature of this engine, it's going to be running very hot.
 
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Originally Posted By: gatorfast
^ that is true assuming track driving produces elevated oil temperatures. From what I have read about the F8x M3/4, no one has reported elevated oil temperatures at the track.


I would bet it gets pretty hot considering it's a direct injected high compression dual turbo. Probably much better than their earliest 335i engines which suffered from way too high temperatures but I imagine the nature of this engine, it's going to be running very hot.


They actually run hotter when steady cruising at highway speeds. The thermostats on modern BMWs are electronic, and have several different cooling profiles. When you start to push it hard, it actually runs the engine cooler for better performance. Steady highway cruising it runs really hot for better FE.

On my N55 135i, it runs the same oil temp on the track as it does cruising down the highway.
 
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Originally Posted By: gatorfast
^ that is true assuming track driving produces elevated oil temperatures. From what I have read about the F8x M3/4, no one has reported elevated oil temperatures at the track.


My Ferrari F355 has oil temperatures of about 275ºF after a 20 minute session leaving the track in 100ºF ambient temps.
 
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