Real synthetic oil?

But the point is you can make a competitive Group III synthetic for a lot less cost than Group IV/V. Blenders were looking for a cheaper way to make synthetic and, at the time, there was a real fear of shortages for materials to make Group IV/V.

I noticed this point (of many). However cost still is the major reason, Group III is by far cheaper. Don't get me wrong, there are great oils out there that are majority Group III. I have mentioned M1 ESP 5W-30 before which certainly is one of the very best VW 504 00 oils you can buy. It easily matches "PAO performance" (if there is something like that) except for pour point and commonly results in excellent UOAs. I just don't agree on those "Group III is equal if not superior to Group IV/V" claims. It's sufficient, it's similar in some cases, it's cheaper to make. Better? Rarely.


EDIT
to complement my previous post:

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But what rationale exactly make petroleum and automotive engineers come to that conclusion? There had to have been something to it.
Not so much petroleum engineers but automotive engineers didn't fully yet understand synthetic oil. They thought it was an expensive niche product. Also, there were negative rumors circulating about synthetic oil which some are still hanging on today.
 
Thanks for the replies, but most of the replies were a bit too oil geeky for me. Maybe a chart of what is real or a cheap blend is needed.
I did see that Pennzoil is listed as pure synthetic. I just remember Pennzoil as a paraffin oil years ago that caused problems for customers I talked to. (old prejudices die hard) when I used to deliver oil many years ago. I guess I need to research what kind of synthetic oil BS is going on out there. Now I wonder about those Havoline 6 quart boxes I like.
 
Not so much petroleum engineers but automotive engineers didn't fully yet understand synthetic oil. They thought it was an expensive niche product. Also, there were negative rumors circulating about synthetic oil which some are still hanging on today.
There did exist compatibility issues with certain finished synthetic products.
Synthetic is a broad category of lubricant chemistry. API requires compatibility in the S categaory.
 
Here's one link, and there's a few white papers on it as well.



I'm referring to the part about Nascar engines showing less wear with group 3 than with group 4. Where did that come from? About the machinery lubrication article, yes I read that a couple of years ago. See post #56 maybe that'll help you.
 
Thanks for the replies, but most of the replies were a bit too oil geeky for me. Maybe a chart of what is real or a cheap blend is needed.
I did see that Pennzoil is listed as pure synthetic. I just remember Pennzoil as a paraffin oil years ago that caused problems for customers I talked to. (old prejudices die hard) when I used to deliver oil many years ago. I guess I need to research what kind of synthetic oil BS is going on out there. Now I wonder about those Havoline 6 quart boxes I like.
Most modern oil is a refined paraffin. The GTL Pennzoil is a synthesized ISO paraffin using the Hans and Franz F-T process.

I think the Pennzoil "wives tales" have more to do with the early Viscosity Improvers added to make your multigrade oil
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Group IV true synthetic is a Poly-alpha-olefin know for its low temp fluidity - even at 50 to 90 degrees below freezing.

Within Group V true synthetics you have the Polyol Ester with excellent very high temp performance - the Jet engine oil base.

As for what is what, oil blenders are NOT too eager to show their "recipes"

But, you might guess that Shell and Pennzoil would use primarily GTL stocks.

That's about it.

Some fancy, expensive oils may tell you something about their makeup.

Formulations and blends are constantly changing. Its a moving target hard to pin.

HTH.

- Ken
 
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