Rav4 Brakes - Premature Wear due to Winter Conditions

[Oldswagon]

Our 2022 Rav4 Hybrid has about 45k kms (28k miles) on it, and we have owned it from new. It sees very harsh winter climate with lots of snow, moisture and salt. I took the brakes apart this weekend to service them and the front brakes were very unevenly worn. The front caliper pins were seized up, despite the fact Toyota serviced them about 1 year ago. The inboard pads are probably about 75-80% worn, while the outboard pads are only about 10% worn. So I will likely have to replace the pads sooner than later, which is very disappointing life - the shortest brake life I have ever had on any car I have owned.

The pins freed up fairly easily and are lubed, but the were locked up solid enough that the caliper wouldn't slide. So I am not really sure why they seized. The rear brakes had the "ears" seized up in the stainless slider clips and appeared to be dragging a bit. So they too are wearing prematurely, although at least evenly.

What are those in the northern climates doing to service their brakes and keep them from seizing? Do I need to start servicing every six months? That seems ridiculous on a modern car. These modern brakes seem worse for seizing to me than say the old cheap single piston sliders used on my old GM RWD cars. It's disappointing to pay big dollars for a new vehicle, have the dealer service the brakes and still have these issues.

 

[Jetronic]

I make sure the pad ears fit loosely in the SS clips, but obviously not to the point of rattling. if they can move the slightest when braking, I find it helps in removing rust. Make sure there's no rust under the clips on the pad carrier either.

For the sliders, I have much more luck with silicone grease than I ever did with the glycol based greases they come with.

 

[Rand]

Depending on how the dealer "serviced" it

it might have been.. "looks good send er"

being a 2022 that is 3 winters so far this being the 4th coming up?

On a flat rate system it rewards shoddy work...
I like doing it myself only for that reason (its done right)
If I had a trusted local mechanic I'd let him do it.. I hate brakes.

Did you remove the hardware? how rusty was it underneath.
they make a flat brake file to remove that crud.

 

[Kalle.J]

Our 2022 Rav4 Hybrid has about 45k kms (28k miles) on it, and we have owned it from new. It sees very harsh winter climate with lots of snow, moisture and salt. I took the brakes apart this weekend to service them and the front brakes were very unevenly worn. The front caliper pins were seized up, despite the fact Toyota serviced them about 1 year ago. The inboard pads are probably about 75-80% worn, while the outboard pads are only about 10% worn. So I will likely have to replace the pads sooner than later, which is very disappointing life - the shortest brake life I have ever had on any car I have owned.

The pins freed up fairly easily and are lubed, but the were locked up solid enough that the caliper wouldn't slide. So I am not really sure why they seized. The rear brakes had the "ears" seized up in the stainless slider clips and appeared to be dragging a bit. So they too are wearing prematurely, although at least evenly.

What are those in the northern climates doing to service their brakes and keep them from seizing? Do I need to start servicing every six months? That seems ridiculous on a modern car. These modern brakes seem worse for seizing to me than say the old cheap single piston sliders used on my old GM RWD cars. It's disappointing to pay big dollars for a new vehicle, have the dealer service the brakes and still have these issues.

Sounds about right. Inspect, remove rust and lube every 2-3years for hassle-free experience.
Learn to do it yourself, ATE Plastilube works.

Smack some new pads on before the discs are shot. Hybrids with regen does not help either.

 

[Oldswagon]

I make sure the pad ears fit loosely in the SS clips, but obviously not to the point of rattling. if they can move the slightest when braking, I find it helps in removing rust. Make sure there's no rust under the clips on the pad carrier either.

For the sliders, I have much more luck with silicone grease than I ever did with the glycol based greases they come with.

I typically have done the same in the past. I find removing the stainless clips and filing under them allow the pads to slid much better. A small amount of corrosion under the clip seems to cause binding.

I have used Permetex green brake lubricant and Keeln Flow Silicon based lube. Both work ok, but I am always open to something better.

Depending on how the dealer "serviced" it

it might have been.. "looks good send er"

being a 2022 that is 3 winters so far this being the 4th coming up?

On a flat rate system it rewards shoddy work...
I like doing it myself only for that reason (its done right)
If I had a trusted local mechanic I'd let him do it.. I hate brakes.

Do you remove the hardware? how rusty was it underneath.
they make a flat brake file to remove that crud.

This is actually only it's third winter. The brakes were serviced at 1 year old and now this is the second time at 2 years old. The car was purchased in Sept 2022.

Yes, I remove all the hardware to service and I use a file (see above). I just find that even thought I get things moving nicely, it's less than a year before it needs attention again. I just a huge PITA to have to potentially service the brakes every six months, and was hoping to find improved lubes or techniques to make them last longer between services.

Sounds about right. Inspect, remove rust and lube every 2-3years.
Learn to do it yourself, ATE Plastilube works.

Smack some new pads on before the discs are shot.

This car doesn't even last 1 year between services. I have serviced brakes for decades, I only had Toyota do it last year because it was in for a warranty repair (sticking ebrake actuator).

I might slap on some new pads...just sucks to do this on a 2 year old car.

 

[Kalle.J]

In that case, I don't think they actually serviced your brakes.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I bought one of these caliper files after discussions here at BITOG. Mueller-Kueps thin caliper file it is very nice, sharp. I normally use a bit of copper anti-seize under the SS parts to coat the parts I filed. I also check the fit of the pad ears and might take off some of the paint metal accordingly.

I just bought some of the Honda MolyKote 77 to use on the ears of my next brake jobs. I used to use some of whichever brake grease that either came with the pads or my small tub of CRC synthetic black grease. Usually worked good but I did have some rust binding issues recently so bought the Moly-Kote.

For the slide pins/boots I use the 3M silicone paste. I'd probably get the Mission Silicone from Amazon when it runs out. I did experience the boot swelling and binding issue on my Sequoia when I used the regular brake grease. Neighbors 4Runner was the same after shop did his brakes. That hasn't happened since then as I read about the plain silicone here at BITOG and went out and bought the silicone paste. I had tried some Sil-Glyde but found it was very watery for me and didn't seem to last. The silicone paste holds up well for me.

 

[meep]

Sounds like primarily the slides bound and the inner pads then took all the work. I’ve learned to take far more patience and time at both cleaning and greasing these. This includes getting the lube down in the chamber past the seal which wants to squeegee it off if I just smear grease on the pin and slide it in. Old dried grease binds - get it all off.

It will be good to see if your thorough redeux lasts longer.

Did you replace with oem pads or choose something else?

Other thoughts

- high pressure water cleaning might erode grease off the ears of the pads.
- brake-actuated limited slip would cause some wear, though I can’t see it being huge.

 

[Patrick0525]

I bought one of these caliper files after discussions here at BITOG. Mueller-Kueps thin caliper file it is very nice, sharp. I normally use a bit of copper anti-seize under the SS parts to coat the parts I filed. I also check the fit of the pad ears and might take off some of the paint metal accordingly.

I just bought some of the Honda MolyKote 77 to use on the ears of my next brake jobs. I used to use some of whichever brake grease that either came with the pads or my small tub of CRC synthetic black grease. Usually worked good but I did have some rust binding issues recently so bought the Moly-Kote.

For the slide pins/boots I use the 3M silicone paste. I'd probably get the Mission Silicone from Amazon when it runs out. I did experience the boot swelling and binding issue on my Sequoia when I used the regular brake grease. Neighbors 4Runner was the same after shop did his brakes. That hasn't happened since then as I read about the plain silicone here at BITOG and went out and bought the silicone paste. I had tried some Sil-Glyde but found it was very watery for me and didn't seem to last. The silicone paste holds up well for me.

I used Mission Silicone on all Toyota Venza caliper pins and it works great. Probably done 6 yrs ago and before that I never knew those pins require silicone grease.

 

[Oldswagon]

I haven't bought a set of pads for the car yet. I was thinking I might just through on a set of Raybestos Element 3, because they are fairly cheap, and I doubt the rotors will last for more than a few more years at most before the rust/wear takes them out too. I am not sure if OEM are worth paying more than double the cost. Thoughts?

I was kind of hoping that if I called the dealership about it, they would give me a set of pads for their shotty work. However, the more I think about it, they will probably just blame it on environmental damage and tell me to pound salt, especially since I don't do my general servicing at their shop (I am DIYer). I do think the brakes were serviced by Toyota (I remember seeing fresh lube on them afterwards), I am just thinking they didn't do a good job. There was still lube on the stainless clips for the front brakes and they moved very easily. The issue is I think they tech ignored the caliper pins, the grease went bad and they stuck. Then since the caliper can't slide, the inboard pad takes all the wear.

Thanks for all the tips and advice...keep it coming.

 

[eljefino]

What's your drive cycle like?

My wife drove an 05 Prius so gently that the rotors would rust over and not scrape clean. Her 21 Prius has been reprogrammed though and uses more friction braking. If you're very gentle with the brakes... and who isn't, when you get "free power" from Regen, you might not be putting enough into the friction brakes to slide those slide pins and keep them free.

In short, throw it in neutral once in a while and stab the pedal.

 

[Geekhead]

I haven't bought a set of pads for the car yet. I was thinking I might just through on a set of Raybestos Element 3, because they are fairly cheap, and I doubt the rotors will last for more than a few more years at most before the rust/wear takes them out too. I am not sure if OEM are worth paying more than double the cost. Thoughts?

I was kind of hoping that if I called the dealership about it, they would give me a set of pads for their shotty work. However, the more I think about it, they will probably just blame it on environmental damage and tell me to pound salt, especially since I don't do my general servicing at their shop (I am DIYer). I do think the brakes were serviced by Toyota (I remember seeing fresh lube on them afterwards), I am just thinking they didn't do a good job. There was still lube on the stainless clips for the front brakes and they moved very easily. The issue is I think they tech ignored the caliper pins, the grease went bad and they stuck. Then since the caliper can't slide, the inboard pad takes all the wear.

Thanks for all the tips and advice...keep it coming.

Probably crap clean and lube from Toy. I'm in Toronto too and if I c&l the pins/hardware every spring (April-May) there is no probs for another year. My 2016 Kia is on original pads with 128K on them

 

[meep]

I haven't bought a set of pads for the car yet. I was thinking I might just through on a set of Raybestos Element 3, because they are fairly cheap, and I doubt the rotors will last for more than a few more years at most before the rust/wear takes them out too. I am not sure if OEM are worth paying more than double the cost. Thoughts?

I was kind of hoping that if I called the dealership about it, they would give me a set of pads for their shotty work. However, the more I think about it, they will probably just blame it on environmental damage and tell me to pound salt, especially since I don't do my general servicing at their shop (I am DIYer). I do think the brakes were serviced by Toyota (I remember seeing fresh lube on them afterwards), I am just thinking they didn't do a good job. There was still lube on the stainless clips for the front brakes and they moved very easily. The issue is I think they tech ignored the caliper pins, the grease went bad and they stuck. Then since the caliper can't slide, the inboard pad takes all the wear.

Thanks for all the tips and advice...keep it coming.

Because it’s a hybrid, I would NOT go with the element 3 pads. Remember, the computer is prioritizing regen braking and then shifting to hydraulic braking behind the scenes, varying with speed, charge demand and pedal pressure. You need to stay as close as possible to the oem pad performance as possible to avoid some sort of weird transition. If oem prices are too high, akebono ACT may be close. I think textar (?) or ate is the oem supplier. @The Critic may be able to ID the supplier.

 

[The Critic]

@The Critic may be able to ID the supplier.

It doesn’t matter because you will not find the identical formulation in the aftermarket.

 

[IveBeenRued]

Sounds like the tech didn’t lube the pins properly or you possibly have torn/loose boots. If you have inner wear, it means water and salt likely got in and seized things. If you have outer wear, over lubrication and compaction of grease at the end of the slide pin channel is a common cause.

Also of note is that some techs hold onto the “pins should always be dry” mentality because they heard it from somewhere without realizing that dry installation is only for certain setups as specified by the engineers.

This is why I do my own clean and lube jobs annually. I’m at 95K miles on my 2020 RAV4 Hybrid. All brakes are roughly 15-20% worn and the wear is very even.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Does the Regen work just by the motors or does it also have a set of its own pads?

Either way I would recommend the Element 3’s. I used to but my last bunch of sets wore quickly. Seems something changed as it has been brought up on the forums with other users having the same issue.

I would go with another brand version or possibly even the Toyota ones.

 

[supton]

I find I have to break everything apart every spring for this reason. Just a fact of life in this region.

I try to do it also in the fall, that helps a bit too.

In the end, its not like brake pads are that expensive. Annoying but I lose far more in depreciation.

 

[Oldswagon]

What's your drive cycle like?

My wife drove an 05 Prius so gently that the rotors would rust over and not scrape clean. Her 21 Prius has been reprogrammed though and uses more friction braking. If you're very gentle with the brakes... and who isn't, when you get "free power" from Regen, you might not be putting enough into the friction brakes to slide those slide pins and keep them free.

In short, throw it in neutral once in a while and stab the pedal.

I do not drive this car very often, it is primary my wife's vehicle. She does not drive like a hyper miler or care about maximizing regen braking. She drives like a typical non-aggressive driver. She is not overly hard on brakes or overly easy on her bakes. Her past cars have had average brake wear. She has owned a Prius in the past, and the brakes lasted much longer on that car. Her previous car was a Outback that got about 70K miles out of the front brakes.

Probably crap clean and lube from Toy. I'm in Toronto too and if I c&l the pins/hardware every spring (April-May) there is no probs for another year. My 2016 Kia is on original pads with 128K on them

I am in Ontario, but significantly North of Toronto in a rural area and have much harsher winters than TOs "winters." For instance, the factory zinc coating on the calipers didn't even last 1 year before turning to rust. Most cars I see in the GTA seem to last quite a few years before the zinc rusts through.

Does the Regen work just by the motors or does it also have a set of its own pads?

Either way I would recommend the Element 3’s. I used to but my last bunch of sets wore quickly. Seems something changed as it has been brought up on the forums with other users having the same issue.

I would go with another brand version or possibly even the Toyota ones.

It does not have it's own set of pads, it just uses the electric motor.

It doesn’t matter because you will not find the identical formulation in the aftermarket.

If I am just looking to pad slap a new set of pads as the rotors are still ok. What is recommended since Raybestos doesn't seem to be favoured? Like I said, due to environmental conditions, I am not expecting really long life as the rotors will rust out prior to that. I can get Raybestos Element 3 for about $50 CDN out the door. I found a dealer that will sell OE Toyota pads, (not AZ line) for about $130 CDN out the door. Other brands are in between.

 

[KrisZ]

I have used Permetex green brake lubricant and Keeln Flow Silicon based lube. Both work ok, but I am always open to something better.

I never liked Permatex brake lubes, they would become hard after just one winter.

Where in Ontario do you live? If in the GTA area there are two Wurth stores, one in Mississauga and one in Vaughan. Do yourself a big favor and buy their Silicone Lubricating Compound. It’s probably one of the better options you can buy in Canada.

I bought a tube something like 15 years ago and I still have some left. And I’ve used it on lots of motorcycle and car rubber parts, not just brake caliper pins. It has never let me down. I got rid of my 06 Mazda 3 with original calipers and pins and that car has seen 11 Canadian winters before I moved to US.

 

[KrisZ]

As far as the pads seizing in the bracket hardware. You need to remove the stainless steel hardware clips and remove rust that’s under them on the bracket. Then use a bit of antiseize on the bracket and put the clips over it. Don’t put any lubricant or antiseize on the SS clips, where the pads touch, as the lube will just gum up and cause issues.

Also, since it’s a hybrid it uses a lot of regeneration braking. You need to be more aggressive with the brakes, this way they will actually be used.