rap and music in general

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
A lot of music is a poor choice for an English lesson. Honky Tonk Badonkadonk? Slang is used widely in all generes of popular music, but again, rap is very blatant about it, so it is an easy target.


Rap is an easy target because it offends on multiple levels like I pointed out. If it was just bad English, it wouldn't be as readily singled out.

That being said, I always found it funny that when James Hetfield addresses the audience at a concert, he's quick to use slang and casual speak, yet when he writes a song, he uses proper English..... There is something to be said for taking that effort.

Quote:
Rap does take those social issues and run with them in many cases, but it's a reflection of where it came from. If an aspiring rapper lives in a ghetto surrounded by drugs, prostitution, violence, etc., that's what he or she will probably rap about. What message they choose to convey about those issues and how makes more of a difference than the subject itself. I will agree, a lot of it is the wrong message.


That's exactly my point. What are young white kids who live in their parent's house in the 'burbs "identifying" with in Rap? I can understand that relation with people who grew up in the slums, but more often then not, the "popular" audience for this music is kids that in no way, shape or form, can "identify" with the circumstances that defined what the rapper is rapping about. Rap would never have become popular and grown beyond its roots if only those that were able to identify with the artist listened to it. Instead, we have easily influenced youths glorifying and attempting to replicate and live-out that lifestyle in our towns and cities. It has become almost epidemic.

Quote:
And the same is true for other genres. There's country that deals with social issues in an artistic way (Whiskey Lullaby by Brad Paisley and Alison Krauss) or that is simply pure idiocy (I love this bar by Toby Keith).


OK, but if some young kid slaps on a cowboy hat and some tight jeans and drives around in an F-250 talking like a bumpkin, that's far less of a sociological problem than ganged-together white kids who think they are "hard" because they listen to 50-cent and start doing drugs and manage to get themselves some firearms. Wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
I'd rather beat up on all [censored] music than use one genre as a whipping boy.


As I said, I'm not a fan of ANY music that advocates the dumbing-down of society, but Rap is singled out because of how far beyond the offences wrought by other genres it goes with what it promotes and glorifies.

 

[IndyIan]

But I think for rap, or any music that promotes stupid/illegal behavior, to actually result in stupid/illegal behavior, the kids listening have to identify with it in some way.
Do happy 14 year old kids in the school band with functional parents listen to $0.50? Yep. Do many decide to go "gangsta" and quit school, to hang out on the corner all day? Nope.
Why would they?
The kids who do identify with $0.50 probably are more likely to persue that lifestyle anyways. Total media censorship of the topics would be an interesting social experiment but I think it would make "gangsta" rap even more enticing to those that are interested in it. I remember listening to radio "banned" rap in grade 6 on a 7th gen tape copy, it was only really cool because we weren't supposed to listen to it, and for the record, I'm not a gangsta nor attempted to become one at any time.

Maybe if no songs were ever made about gangsta's and pimps and hoes, there might be significantly less of them? I doubt it.
I think for most parents, bad music is like McDonalds, bad for them and ever present, but a defeatable influence on your children.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Rap is an easy target because it offends on multiple levels like I pointed out. If it was just bad English, it wouldn't be as readily singled out.


Other genres have the potential to offend on multiple levels as well. Some of David Allen Coe's x-rated songs make the average rapper look like a choir boy. People have accused Rammstein of being influenced by Nazis! Is it true? I don't think so. I listen to Rammstein and haven't started goose stepping, but clearly someone is offended by it.

Quote:

That being said, I always found it funny that when James Hetfield addresses the audience at a concert, he's quick to use slang and casual speak, yet when he writes a song, he uses proper English..... There is something to be said for taking that effort.

Agreed.

Quote:

That's exactly my point. What are young white kids who live in their parent's house in the 'burbs "identifying" with in Rap? I can understand that relation with people who grew up in the slums, but more often then not, the "popular" audience for this music is kids that in no way, shape or form, can "identify" with the circumstances that defined what the rapper is rapping about. Rap would never have become popular and grown beyond its roots if only those that were able to identify with the artist listened to it. Instead, we have easily influenced youths glorifying and attempting to replicate and live-out that lifestyle in our towns and cities. It has become almost epidemic.

This is really at its core a parenting issue. Should we censor certain types of music simply because there's a risk sensitive ears might hear it? I think absolutely not. Where would the line be drawn? It is a parents responsibility to be aware of and control what their children are exposed to. If you use MTV to raise your kid, then garbage in, garbage out. If parents do their part to instill their own good values in their children, they will never have to worry about the influence a rap song might have on their kid. If little Jonny is raised by an X-Box or MTV, yeah, there's going to be problems, but that's not rap's fault.

Quote:

OK, but if some young kid slaps on a cowboy hat and some tight jeans and drives around in an F-250 talking like a bumpkin, that's far less of a sociological problem than ganged-together white kids who think they are "hard" because they listen to 50-cent and start doing drugs and manage to get themselves some firearms. Wouldn't you agree?


What if that kid puts on his cowboy hat and gets into his F-250 and proceeds to plow into a family because his BAC level was almost a .2% from having so much fun at the bar? This type of stuff happens ALL THE TIME. I would not gloss over alcoholism as a social issue, it's extremely destructive and leads to the other problems you mentioned.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
But I think for rap, or any music that promotes stupid/illegal behavior, to actually result in stupid/illegal behavior, the kids listening have to identify with it in some way.
Do happy 14 year old kids in the school band with functional parents listen to $0.50? Yep. Do many decide to go "gangsta" and quit school, to hang out on the corner all day? Nope.
Why would they?
The kids who do identify with $0.50 probably are more likely to persue that lifestyle anyways. Total media censorship of the topics would be an interesting social experiment but I think it would make "gangsta" rap even more enticing to those that are interested in it. I remember listening to radio "banned" rap in grade 6 on a 7th gen tape copy, it was only really cool because we weren't supposed to listen to it, and for the record, I'm not a gangsta nor attempted to become one at any time.

Maybe if no songs were ever made about gangsta's and pimps and hoes, there might be significantly less of them? I doubt it.
I think for most parents, bad music is like McDonalds, bad for them and ever present, but a defeatable influence on your children.



Agreed! You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Smokescreen]

For me real music seems to transcend time. It brings memory and emotion to our remembrance from when we first hear it for years and a lifetime later. Most of these songs can have the same effect with or without lyrics. Of course a lot of classical music can fit in this category.

"Classics" are a little different and can exist from any genre, but are mostly 1 or 2 generations as music evolves. My kids like 80s music because that's mostly what I listen to that they can sing along to or even dance to it.

Flavors of the day or week for shock value or whatever seem to very time limited. C Rap music fits this very precisely for me. Its not eloquent, nor long lasting. If you took away the lyrics, they would be easily forgotten or maybe not even recognized. The sad part about C Rap is that the majority can't and won't be consumed by the general public because of the generally abusive nature of the lyrics. Playing the radio edit of a lot of these 'tunes' is futile and pathetic as there is nearly nothing left. Start up a C Rap song that is harsher in the lyric department and/or has its typical very heavy beats...Then try to sing or dance or even hum along to it. It is really really tough to do. No lasting value.

I find foul language abhorrent, how does that saying go...Swearing is an attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcibly....That pretty much sums up what C Rap is to me.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen

I find foul language abhorrent, how does that saying go...Swearing is an attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcibly....That pretty much sums up what C Rap is to me.


I like how you said this while bypassing the language filter four times in your post.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen

I find foul language abhorrent, how does that saying go...Swearing is an attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcibly....That pretty much sums up what C Rap is to me.


I like how you said this while bypassing the language filter four times in your post.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

For those who are so heavily opposed to rap, have you actually spent enough time listening to it to make an argument?

It's kind of like that person who says how bad a product is even though he himself has never used it, but heard it from a friend, who heard it from his landlord, who heard it from his estranged cousin twice removed. It seems like most here are focusing on the profanity and the violence, promoted by some rappers but not all.

And I agree with IndyIan that listening to rap doesn't automatically make someone a violent gangster. Heck, one of my professors put on "Empire State of Mind" before starting class one time. He's a 40 year old, Indian man with a Ph.D in Biology. You can't generalize everyone who listens to rap and hip-hop to a stereotype.

 

[Smokescreen]

I can honestly say...I have tried to like it, on at least four different occasions separated by time so that I could have a somewhat fresh pallet. I didn't like the way I felt after listening to it. I agree with another post earlier...there are enough things in this world that can drag your mood and outlook down, for me music is something that I want to have the opposite effect...I want to be uplifted.

I have tried to like blues music too, I still don't understand it fully (but I do like blues riffs in rock and roll)...and I'll probably try to like it again in a while....I am not repulsed by it like I am by fi-dee, tupac, eminem and the gang, with that genre I am tired of trying to like it.

To each their own...freedom is a great thing.

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

As a horizontally, follicly, tan, youth challenged guy I can't say that I enjoy listening to rap or hip hop. It's just not my thing, kinda like Dixie land jazz - I think I dislike that more than rap by the way. I do wonder how many people lump the gangsta aspect with ALL rap and hip hop? I personally don't listen the genre so I can't tell you what percentage is gangsta. I can tell you that I do know some fine upstanding youths that like rap and hip hop - not gangsta.

I think if the rap and hip hop community would publicly speak out against the gangsta aspect more respect would be given. If we can speak out about bullying, racism, sexism, antisemitism, ect, we should be able to speak out against gangsta and not be accused of censorship or worse.

JMO

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Sunnyinhollister
As a horizontally, follicly, tan, youth challenged guy I can't say that I enjoy listening to rap or hip hop. It's just not my thing, kinda like Dixie land jazz - I think I dislike that more than rap by the way. I do wonder how many people lump the gangsta aspect with ALL rap and hip hop? I personally don't listen the genre so I can't tell you what percentage is gangsta. I can tell you that I do know some fine upstanding youths that like rap and hip hop - not gangsta.

I think if the rap and hip hop community would publicly speak out against the gangsta aspect more respect would be given. If we can speak out about bullying, racism, sexism, antisemitism, ect, we should be able to speak out against gangsta and not be accused of censorship or worse.

JMO


There's nothing wrong with not liking the way it sounds or what the lyrics are saying. There is such a wide range of music to listen to because people have different tastes and have different ways of expressing their ideas and emotions. That's the way it should be. It would be incredibly boring if everyone created and listened to the same type of music.

It's also fair to say that a lot of rap songs are lacking in content and creativity, and the genre as a whole has a lot of junk to sort through. That doesn't make rap music a threat to society or universally bad (not that you made any of those claims). Music is a symptom of a society's condition, not a cause. As long as these elements exist in society, so will the music, and getting rid of the music would do nothing to remedy the situation.

 

[OVERKILL]

So would rap exist if the ghettos were purged then?

Food for thought.

Because one of the largest consumers of Rap music is the middle-class white kid who knows nothing about ghetto or street life other than what he's heard in rap songs or lived vicariously Hollywood-style.

Back when I was in highschool I remember the "gangsta" kids all too well. Their parents were either teachers at the school or worked at the local University. This was rural New Brunswick and being "hard" because you were a "thug" was certainly in vogue, despite the fact that your mother was secretary to the president of the University and your dad taught grade 4 at the local elementary school. That's "thug life" for sure, YO!

Certainly the VAST majority of "gangsta" kids that I've met have no concept of what ghetto life TRULY is. They've never been 100 miles outside their home town, still live with their parents and talking "thug" is a fashion statement more than anything. Unfortunately they attempt to emulate the lifestyle as well, getting into drugs, gangs and all kinds of exciting things! This is despite the fact that they don't come from poverty and their "hood" is filled with 300K homes and beautifully manicured lawns.

Now your point about this being a parenting issue is certainly a valid one! But I think a lot of the blame rests in society's push to curb any form of real discipline through the increasingly broad definition of what constitutes "abuse", removing much of the control parents historically had. That, in conjunction with the two parents working and the MTV babysitter, it is of no surprise that kids choose something that is "popular" to idolize and follow. However the question as to how the "thug" lifestyle because fashionable in the first place still baffles me. Can you imagine a fad promoting welfare and leprosy? Because drug dealing/thievery and gun violence/gang wars are just as awful a choice.

Tupac Shakur wrote the song "Changes" promoting a shift away from this glorified ghetto-lifestyle, yet he didn't lead by example. He was involved in multiple gun/gang fights after writing that song and ultimately died at the hands of his lifestyle choice. He had the money to distance himself from all of that due to his success, but he chose not to and that choice proved fatal.

So when one chooses to make a lyrical "go" at it, using their past as a backdrop, but then choose to CONTINUE that lifestyle after being able to distance themselves from it financially through their success, then where is the happy ending? If you can rap your way out of the ghetto but choose not to because it would ruin your "thug" image then what is the point?

And for the record, I've listened to plenty of rap music (albeit most of it mainstream) and I've tried to understand, through listening to the lyrics, what value people can take away from the message being conveyed. And I've found NOTHING of substance! Certainly nothing deep or profound. The only song I can think of off-hand here is again "Changes", and he's dead and the message, despite being what I would consider extremely well written for a rap song, was not sincere. Otherwise of course, he wouldn't be dead right now.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: buickman50401
Originally Posted By: surfstar

Ted (what's his name?) Nugent? anyone?
Not thuggish at all.

And my belief is that many people's distaste for a certain thing may come from deep-seeded feelings actually. Maybe its not the music, but the people you have a dislike for?

Was wondering how long before someone played the racist card.

If you don't like something generally associated with group X, well then clearly you're a racist/bigot/-phobe/intolerant/misogynist etc etc. No longer can you simply dislike something on its own merit. There MUST be some ulterior motive or "deep seeded" reason you don't like it.


Quite right. I got called a racist for making remarks about the rather primitive structure (and message) of Rap music.... in a thread about a WHITE rapper!!

You make a good point. I remember growing up the shift from simply watching what you said to the politically correct nonsense. Somebody who was obese was now "horizontally challenged" and the like. This has now morphed into every bloody statement made, if it is in disagreement with something else, or it isn't telling somebody their feces smell like roses, it must have a sinister racially-oriented, or some other equally offensive motive behind it.

And of course what is also funny here is that white people seem to be the only ones performing this PC "self censorship".

We created almost overnight this "culture of tolerance" to end an intolerance "problem" that I think perhaps, at that stage of the game, we were the only ones who thought we had one. And we became so intolerant of this perceived intolerance that now we can't even tolerate ourselves discussing anything that might be misconstrued as intolerant! This is truly an extremely twisted self-fulfilling prophecy.


Truth!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Without a job or an education what else can thugs look forward to guns, money and hoes ?


Change thugs to white trash and hoes to trailers and or meth.

Just making sure we offend more than one race in this thread.


Rap is often blamed for degrading society, but there are really many genres that glorify unsavory things. Rap is just an easy target because of the blatant obscenity. I think a lot of people just tune out those unsavory things when they hear them in other genres because the song is catchy.

A lot of radio country glorifies alcoholism, underachievement, and laziness, all of which are severely detremental to society, but "I like beer, I like the bar, give my horse a beer" makes a good pop country song though.


If you actually LISTENED to the song, Beer For My Horses is about the DECLINE of society and people trying to stop it. The video (superb) makes that crystal clear.

 

[skate1968]

Hi folks,

I'm not aware of all the songs being discussed above. But i do enjoy reading the responses.

Anyways here is one decent rap song that comes to mind.

EDIT: And i after reading the lyrics i found a cussword. So it's a NO. The artist was Eminiem.

Maybe i'll find another one without the cussing.

DISCLAIMER: I am not especially trying to imply anything about whites, african americans or aboriginess, etc. Not especially wanting to imply anything about eminem's personal decisions or personal life, etc.

The above comments are the opinions of "skate1968" and are meant for entertainment purposes only. Blah, blah, blah, etc.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
So would rap exist if the ghettos were purged then?

Food for thought.

Good question. It would probably carry on in some form, but definitely not its current form.

Quote:

Because one of the largest consumers of Rap music is the middle-class white kid who knows nothing about ghetto or street life other than what he's heard in rap songs or lived vicariously Hollywood-style.

Back when I was in highschool I remember the "gangsta" kids all too well. Their parents were either teachers at the school or worked at the local University. This was rural New Brunswick and being "hard" because you were a "thug" was certainly in vogue, despite the fact that your mother was secretary to the president of the University and your dad taught grade 4 at the local elementary school. That's "thug life" for sure, YO!

Certainly the VAST majority of "gangsta" kids that I've met have no concept of what ghetto life TRULY is. They've never been 100 miles outside their home town, still live with their parents and talking "thug" is a fashion statement more than anything. Unfortunately they attempt to emulate the lifestyle as well, getting into drugs, gangs and all kinds of exciting things! This is despite the fact that they don't come from poverty and their "hood" is filled with 300K homes and beautifully manicured lawns.

Now your point about this being a parenting issue is certainly a valid one! But I think a lot of the blame rests in society's push to curb any form of real discipline through the increasingly broad definition of what constitutes "abuse", removing much of the control parents historically had. That, in conjunction with the two parents working and the MTV babysitter, it is of no surprise that kids choose something that is "popular" to idolize and follow. However the question as to how the "thug" lifestyle because fashionable in the first place still baffles me. Can you imagine a fad promoting welfare and leprosy? Because drug dealing/thievery and gun violence/gang wars are just as awful a choice.

Tupac Shakur wrote the song "Changes" promoting a shift away from this glorified ghetto-lifestyle, yet he didn't lead by example. He was involved in multiple gun/gang fights after writing that song and ultimately died at the hands of his lifestyle choice. He had the money to distance himself from all of that due to his success, but he chose not to and that choice proved fatal.

So when one chooses to make a lyrical "go" at it, using their past as a backdrop, but then choose to CONTINUE that lifestyle after being able to distance themselves from it financially through their success, then where is the happy ending? If you can rap your way out of the ghetto but choose not to because it would ruin your "thug" image then what is the point?

And for the record, I've listened to plenty of rap music (albeit most of it mainstream) and I've tried to understand, through listening to the lyrics, what value people can take away from the message being conveyed. And I've found NOTHING of substance! Certainly nothing deep or profound. The only song I can think of off-hand here is again "Changes", and he's dead and the message, despite being what I would consider extremely well written for a rap song, was not sincere. Otherwise of course, he wouldn't be dead right now.


Good points. I'm not going to defend the life choices of Tupac or any other rapper. If they choose to live the life they rap about, they know what the potential consequences are. The Tupac vs. Biggie "beef" that resulted in both of them being shot never made any sense to me.

The white kids who actually acted like thugs at my high school were often from poorer, less stable homes. The ones that actually did do a lot of drugs and dabble in other crimes were more emulating their dirtbag family members and the things others were doing in their neighborhoods than they were acting out because of music. Now, there will always be the middle class posers, but I doubt the majority of those kids engage in serious criminal activity that's way above and beyond what everyone else is doing. I can assure you in my high school it wasn't just the "ghetto" kids doing drugs, drinking, and other things. In fact, those things were often the one commonality between some groups of kids.

As for why some middle class white kids are choosing to not just listen to rap, but emulate the lifestyle (there's a difference), I think that's because of the rebellious, offensive nature of a lot of rap. Whatever teenage issues they are having make them want to act out in a way that goes against the grain, and the rap lifestyle is a ready made package for that. Get mom to buy you some FuBu shirts and baggy jeans and nobody has to know you are just a middle class teenager. They don't understand everything that is actually a part of that lifestyle because they haven't experienced it or seen it. They don't know what addiction can do, they don't know how brutal and disgusting the prostitution industry is, and they don't know how someone will kill them over the money or drugs in their pocket. They definitely don't know what jail is like.

I am selective about the rap I listen to. The majority of it is more obscure Southern rap from the 1980s-1990s and very early 2000s. I listen to that type of rap specifically because I have spent a lot of time in Birmingham, AL, and not the nice parts. My parents made sure they got out before the SHTF, but the rest of my family never got the white flight notice. Visiting them I saw the ghetto first hand and up close since they lived in it, and hearing Southern rap was part of my experience growing up. To an extent maybe I got desensitized to the subject matter, but I also saw it first hand. FWIW, I do not look or act in any way like a thug. I also have relatives from the sticks and live that lifestyle more than anything else. For someone who has no interest in rebelling against your parents or in what's going on in the hood, I can understand why rap doesn't do anything for you.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Without a job or an education what else can thugs look forward to guns, money and hoes ?


Change thugs to white trash and hoes to trailers and or meth.

Just making sure we offend more than one race in this thread.


Rap is often blamed for degrading society, but there are really many genres that glorify unsavory things. Rap is just an easy target because of the blatant obscenity. I think a lot of people just tune out those unsavory things when they hear them in other genres because the song is catchy.

A lot of radio country glorifies alcoholism, underachievement, and laziness, all of which are severely detremental to society, but "I like beer, I like the bar, give my horse a beer" makes a good pop country song though.


If you actually LISTENED to the song, Beer For My Horses is about the DECLINE of society and people trying to stop it. The video (superb) makes that crystal clear.


I have (more than I care to), and I just don't find it to be particularly good, but I've never liked any Toby Keith song. I can appreciate the occasional vigilante justice song, but this is like a vigilante justice drinking song. That's pop country for you though.

 

[Firehawk409]

Rap is a simple form of "music". It's supposed to be that way. Reason being, kids who grew up in a poor area, be it any race, do not have the money to have a piano, guitar, or any other instrument. They hang out on the streets and as many young boys/men do they want to show their dominance.So they compete against other rappers by putting them down or simply telling a story and keeping the flow going with whatever beat he has, or no beat at all.

Some make it big, go mainstream, then put out rubbish and make the big bucks. It is what it is.


Young white kids listening to rap and acting like thugs is no different then the white kids who listen to Metallica back in the 80s. With the big hair, tight jeans and running around causing trouble. Just kids being kids and rebelling. If the parents are good ones the kids sooner or later grow out of it and become responsible citizens. Back in jr high I busted a sag, and wore my pants backward(kris kross)just once though.lol I of course do not do that now and you would never think I did by talking to me.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Firehawk409

Young white kids listening to rap and acting like thugs is no different then the white kids who listen to Metallica back in the 80s. With the big hair, tight jeans and running around causing trouble. Just kids being kids and rebelling. If the parents are good ones the kids sooner or later grow out of it and become responsible citizens. Back in jr high I busted a sag, and wore my pants backward(kris kross)just once though.lol I of course do not do that now and you would never think I did by talking to me.


I don't agree with that part. Pretty much everybody I know listened to Metallica (hey, they were/are one of the most popular bands of all time) but Metallica's lyrics never advocated gun violence, drug use or anything in that vein. And while the music may have perhaps been "rebellious" for the time, it certainly didn't give you any direction as to how to BE rebellious.

And of course Metallica also managed to come up with deep, meaningful lyrics that provoked thought and discussion. A far cry from any rap song I can think of.

So if you are implying that this, this "slide" is some form of musical evolution from where we were in the 80's, well then I feel obliged to state that it is certainly in the wrong direction!

James Hetfield certainly never got in a gun fight with Dave Mustaine over turf! And this is in spite of the fact that they have a long and somewhat sordid history there! Naw, they had it out with a shrink and made a video about it instead.

And while I can think of a few metal guys that have died through alcoholism in some form, I can't think of a single example of them shooting at each other like dogs trying to rub each other out. I think that's one of the biggest differences that sets Rap apart from the other genres. The lack of respect for human life

 

[Stelth]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Garbage such as rap (all of it) and hip hop type noise I frankly find disgusting. The thugs that make that sort of noise and write those types of lyrics are some of the scum of the earth. It's tells a lot about the decline of society in general when these knuckle draggers are considered "artists", rather than considered to be the criminals that they are.

Music should be uplifting both emotionally and spiritually, the garbage noise that rappers and hip hoppers make are neither.

I could go on about my opinion of the rapper and hip hop noise and those that listen, but it would cross the bounds of the forum.



So, you're more of a Pat Boone man, then?

I love statements like this. When Chuck Berry came along, we heard, "That's not music!" When the Beatles came along, all the girls were going to get pregnant, and the boys were going to wear that girlish long hair. And don't even start with The Rolling Stones. Then Judas Priest was going to make everybody commit suicide. And so on.

I'm in my 50's. I listen to some rap, industrial, industrial metal, electronica, classical Indian music and some of its offshoots, current r&r/alternative/indie, and so on.

But I better check with Pop to see if this is all real music or "garbage."