Ram EcoDiesel Questions

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
Anybody remember the testing that Ram was doing with Cummins for their half ton trucks prior to the bailout? Obviously the testing was put on hold until the storm cleared but in the process Chrysler sold out to Fiat. Fiat purchased 50% of VM's stake in 2011 from Penske, and bought the remaining share from government motors in 2013. I don't think the concept of a half ton diesel ever died within Chryslers ranks but the change of ownership definitely changed the game for the choice of drivetrain. This is the first time any manufacture in the states has had a solid light duty diesel engine platform at it's disposal, and I think we are going to see a lot more diesels popping up in different Chrysler products in the next 5+ years.

Chrysler may not have the best reputation of the big 3 but since Fiat acquired Chrysler there have been a lot of changes within the organization. Chrysler has made some serious gains in fit and fuction, and I gotta say it's quite refreshing to see such an improvement in quality. IMO the 4th gen Ram trucks are the best looking trucks of the other Dodge generations to date and Ford and GM, for that matter.


I'm hoping they use the 3.0 VM diesel in the Wrangler, I think it would sell very well.

 

[abycat]

my buddy has a 2004 5.9 with a good 75000$ into the engine. It's around 1000hp and 1900 ftlbs of torque. It puts out some black smoke at low rpm just to get the turbo to spool up quicker but at close to top rpm it just puts out a bit. You still need some smoke to put out that much hp.

 

[bammer5609]

I only have one question. How the heck do you get at the turbo? I have seen that engine on display, the turbo is right on the backside of the block. When it is in the engine bay you have a transmission right below it and the firewall above it. Considering the turbo is the hardest working component on the engine, what a stupid location.

I am a turbo tech, I diagnose and rebuild turbos, I have seen the good, bad and the ugly. Heat, dirty oil/air filter are the 3 killers of turbos.

I have seen comp wheels that have exploded due to overspeed, I have seen turbine wheels that have blown through turbine housings. I would like to know the R&R on the turbo for that engine.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: bammer5609
I only have one question. How the heck do you get at the turbo? I have seen that engine on display, the turbo is right on the backside of the block. When it is in the engine bay you have a transmission right below it and the firewall above it. Considering the turbo is the hardest working component on the engine, what a stupid location.

I am a turbo tech, I diagnose and rebuild turbos, I have seen the good, bad and the ugly. Heat, dirty oil/air filter are the 3 killers of turbos.

I have seen comp wheels that have exploded due to overspeed, I have seen turbine wheels that have blown through turbine housings. I would like to know the R&R on the turbo for that engine.


Good question, I hope it isn't one of those you have to pull the engine to remove the turbo deal breakers.

 

[ac_tc]

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html

 

[loneryder]

I would get that FF out of there real soon, 2-3k miles at the most. All those tuners do is fool the ecm to dump more fuel in it. I have a MB ML diesel and tried 2 of them. Car was more responsive but it caused pinging and valve rattling. It puts more stress on your fuel pumps. Our engines are very similar in design so I wouldn't do it.
Like the other guy said, don't give Chrysler an excuse not to cover your truck.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
I would get that FF out of there real soon, 2-3k miles at the most. All those tuners do is fool the ecm to dump more fuel in it. I have a MB ML diesel and tried 2 of them. Car was more responsive but it caused pinging and valve rattling. It puts more stress on your fuel pumps. Our engines are very similar in design so I wouldn't do it.
Like the other guy said, don't give Chrysler an excuse not to cover your truck.



You obviously have no idea what a tuner does if you think it just adds fuel. In fact most tuning devices don't modify fuel trims at all except at full throttle,though they will adjust valve events.
Common email tunes and carb company tuning cannot adjust fuel much if at all. Custom tuning is a different matter though.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: jrmason
Anybody remember the testing that Ram was doing with Cummins for their half ton trucks prior to the bailout? Obviously the testing was put on hold until the storm cleared but in the process Chrysler sold out to Fiat. Fiat purchased 50% of VM's stake in 2011 from Penske, and bought the remaining share from government motors in 2013. I don't think the concept of a half ton diesel ever died within Chryslers ranks but the change of ownership definitely changed the game for the choice of drivetrain. This is the first time any manufacture in the states has had a solid light duty diesel engine platform at it's disposal, and I think we are going to see a lot more diesels popping up in different Chrysler products in the next 5+ years.

Chrysler may not have the best reputation of the big 3 but since Fiat acquired Chrysler there have been a lot of changes within the organization. Chrysler has made some serious gains in fit and fuction, and I gotta say it's quite refreshing to see such an improvement in quality. IMO the 4th gen Ram trucks are the best looking trucks of the other Dodge generations to date and Ford and GM, for that matter.


Yes, Cummins had a nifty 5.0L DOHC V8 diesel developed for the Ram 1500 before Chrysler hit the wall. They had even announced the production agreement. Then when Chrysler was bought by Fiat, it became impossible to use the Cummins engine from a standpoint of corporate politics.

In the last 5 years, Cummins has been marketing that engine around to different OEM's, and recently announced that it will go into the Nissan Titan. Maybe this will give Nissan more credibility or visibility in the US pickup truck market. That engine already had a production line set up in Cummins' plant in Columbus, Indiana. I saw it a couple of times back in 2012 when I was doing some proposal work with them.

 

[ryansride2017]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: jrmason
Anybody remember the testing that Ram was doing with Cummins for their half ton trucks prior to the bailout? Obviously the testing was put on hold until the storm cleared but in the process Chrysler sold out to Fiat. Fiat purchased 50% of VM's stake in 2011 from Penske, and bought the remaining share from government motors in 2013. I don't think the concept of a half ton diesel ever died within Chryslers ranks but the change of ownership definitely changed the game for the choice of drivetrain. This is the first time any manufacture in the states has had a solid light duty diesel engine platform at it's disposal, and I think we are going to see a lot more diesels popping up in different Chrysler products in the next 5+ years.

Chrysler may not have the best reputation of the big 3 but since Fiat acquired Chrysler there have been a lot of changes within the organization. Chrysler has made some serious gains in fit and fuction, and I gotta say it's quite refreshing to see such an improvement in quality. IMO the 4th gen Ram trucks are the best looking trucks of the other Dodge generations to date and Ford and GM, for that matter.


Yes, Cummins had a nifty 5.0L DOHC V8 diesel developed for the Ram 1500 before Chrysler hit the wall. They had even announced the production agreement. Then when Chrysler was bought by Fiat, it became impossible to use the Cummins engine from a standpoint of corporate politics.

In the last 5 years, Cummins has been marketing that engine around to different OEM's, and recently announced that it will go into the Nissan Titan. Maybe this will give Nissan more credibility or visibility in the US pickup truck market. That engine already had a production line set up in Cummins' plant in Columbus, Indiana. I saw it a couple of times back in 2012 when I was doing some proposal work with them.


That same 5.0L Cummins engine Nissan is using is also going to power the upcoming Toyota Tundra Diesel. May have been useful for Nissan to get some sort of "Nissan Exclusive" portion into their agreement. IMHO, it sort of takes the wind out of the sales of the upcoming Titan if Cummins is willing to sell it to any manufacturer that comes a knockin'.

 

[SteveSRT8]

These days you can bet that ANY independent engine mfgr will be willing to sell to anyone who can show the ability to pay for it. That engine cost millions to develop.

Cummins is in many different brands already, why not another?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
These days you can bet that ANY independent engine mfgr will be willing to sell to anyone who can show the ability to pay for it. That engine cost millions to develop.

Cummins is in many different brands already, why not another?


Exactly. Why would any manufacturer of a product intentionally limit their ability to sell that product by guaranteeing exclusivity. Makes no sense to me in this global marketplace we now inhabit.
And the cummins engine will do for toyota what cummins did for dodge in the 90s. It makes them not only a contender but immediately puts them front and center for the diesel buying public.
Right now we are considering buying 4 dodge diesel light duty trucks based on the reliability of the vm power plant and the mileage is amazing to say the least but if the Titan is getting a light duty cummins engine I'm thinking we should hold out for a bit,just to see exactly what's out there and whether a few dollars more really nets much better quality.
And I will admit i prefer to buy off this continent. Cummins will employ my southern brethren which makes sense to me

 

[loneryder]

You obviously aren't the expert on everything that you think yourself to be. I'm talking about all those tuner boxes for sale all over the internet. They are attached just before the fuel rail pressure control (diesels) and simply dump more fuel into the cylinders. I'm not talking about someone with a laptop that has a program to re flash the ECM for better performance.

 

[loneryder]

Originally Posted By: bammer5609
I only have one question. How the heck do you get at the turbo? I have seen that engine on display, the turbo is right on the backside of the block. When it is in the engine bay you have a transmission right below it and the firewall above it. Considering the turbo is the hardest working component on the engine, what a stupid location.

I am a turbo tech, I diagnose and rebuild turbos, I have seen the good, bad and the ugly. Heat, dirty oil/air filter are the 3 killers of turbos.

I have seen comp wheels that have exploded due to overspeed, I have seen turbine wheels that have blown through turbine housings. I would like to know the R&R on the turbo for that engine.

It's very much like the Mercedes bluetec. Same location etc. Looks like they copied the Mercedes engine. The dumbest thing about the MB V6 is the oil cooler buried deep in the V of the block. Don't know how the VM does it. I haven't heard of many turbo failures the the bluetec engine.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Still think they should have stuck with the inline 4 VM diesel like I have in a 2006 Jeep Liberty. They could have opened it up to 3.0 and had a great engine that was easy to get to things on. If it fit in a Liberty along with the 545 trans, it would fit in a Wrangler or especially a 1/2 ton pickup. There is no good reason to go to a V engine in this class. Just more complicated with no appreciable benefit over a inline 4 of the same displacement. If the 2.8L in my Liberty can easily yank around a 300 gallon fuel wagon thru hilly crop fields, and even yank a Interstate Battery truck out of a ditch during an ice storm, then a 3.0L inline 4 would do as much or better. And this same 2.8L gets 32-35 mpg on road trips, regularly, in a 4x4 lifted vehicle that is not the best example of aerodynamics and weighs in at 4500 lb dry weight.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Still think they should have stuck with the inline 4 VM diesel like I have in a 2006 Jeep Liberty. They could have opened it up to 3.0 and had a great engine that was easy to get to things on. If it fit in a Liberty along with the 545 trans, it would fit in a Wrangler or especially a 1/2 ton pickup. There is no good reason to go to a V engine in this class. Just more complicated with no appreciable benefit over a inline 4 of the same displacement. If the 2.8L in my Liberty can easily yank around a 300 gallon fuel wagon thru hilly crop fields, and even yank a Interstate Battery truck out of a ditch during an ice storm, then a 3.0L inline 4 would do as much or better. And this same 2.8L gets 32-35 mpg on road trips, regularly, in a 4x4 lifted vehicle that is not the best example of aerodynamics and weighs in at 4500 lb dry weight.

Sometimes a good engine gets cancelled due to tougher smog laws. Other times, people ask for more power, but the engine can't handle those higher power levels. I'm not sure if that is the case here or not.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Originally Posted By: bammer5609
I only have one question. How the heck do you get at the turbo? I have seen that engine on display, the turbo is right on the backside of the block. When it is in the engine bay you have a transmission right below it and the firewall above it. Considering the turbo is the hardest working component on the engine, what a stupid location.

I am a turbo tech, I diagnose and rebuild turbos, I have seen the good, bad and the ugly. Heat, dirty oil/air filter are the 3 killers of turbos.

I have seen comp wheels that have exploded due to overspeed, I have seen turbine wheels that have blown through turbine housings. I would like to know the R&R on the turbo for that engine.

It's very much like the Mercedes bluetec. Same location etc. Looks like they copied the Mercedes engine. The dumbest thing about the MB V6 is the oil cooler buried deep in the V of the block. Don't know how the VM does it. I haven't heard of many turbo failures the the bluetec engine.


I wasn't impressed with the location of the turbo either. I have no experience with diesel engines but the location of that turbo looks like a real PITA to remove if it ever had to be serviced. My buddy who is much more familiar with diesel engines says the job isn't that bad though.

 

[CT8]

I looked at the Ram with the diesel as well as the Hemi. My 1996 Tacoma runs great but is old. I am to scared to buy a new vehicle and have it turn out to be a piece of junk. Knock on wood other that scheduled maintenance the Tacoma has been flawless. I just couldn't write the check.

 

[pb379]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Still think they should have stuck with the inline 4 VM diesel like I have in a 2006 Jeep Liberty. They could have opened it up to 3.0 and had a great engine that was easy to get to things on. If it fit in a Liberty along with the 545 trans, it would fit in a Wrangler or especially a 1/2 ton pickup. There is no good reason to go to a V engine in this class. Just more complicated with no appreciable benefit over a inline 4 of the same displacement. If the 2.8L in my Liberty can easily yank around a 300 gallon fuel wagon thru hilly crop fields, and even yank a Interstate Battery truck out of a ditch during an ice storm, then a 3.0L inline 4 would do as much or better. And this same 2.8L gets 32-35 mpg on road trips, regularly, in a 4x4 lifted vehicle that is not the best example of aerodynamics and weighs in at 4500 lb dry weight.


The VM L630DOHC in the 14 JGC and RAM 1500 is a very smooth, quiet engine for a diesel. Smoother and quieter than any diesel I've ever been around. It makes good HP and gobs of TQ. I'm sure for the NA market, for every one of us that thinks an I4 is a great motor, there are thousands of people that would immediately scoff at the notion of a four cylinder diesel in a 1/2T pick-up. Remember, the RAM 1500 is competing with the other makes in payload, towing capacity as well as fuel economy. It is a very competitive market.

I'm very happy with my new RAM 1500 diesel. Being able to tow 9,000lbs and get 15.5 MPG while doing it is just awesome! I'm sure Toyota and Nissan will do well with their 1/2T diesels as will GM with their Colorado/Canyon diesel in '16.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: BigJohn


I've decided to dump the FF at 5k miles and will probably go with Pennzoil off Amazon.



Had to make a run to Texas and the truck had 5,500 on her, so I will keep driving. Besides, I pulled the dip stick and wiped the oil with a clean paper towel and was amazed how clean the oil was. With my previous Turbo Diesel, a 2010 VW Touareg with the 3.0L...the oil would be soupy, dirty at 3,000 miles.

Now I know that the way oil looks has very little to do with it, but was amazed at the light brown color, rather that the fudge chocolate color I am use to seeing.

I will go ahead and run the FF to 10k miles.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Yeah, I am sure some would scoff at an inline 4 of the same displacement as the V6. Many folks have grown accustomed to V engine design. I just never became fond of V engines. I generally turn wrenches on my stuff, and inlines are much easier to work on, and when turbocharging comes into play, a lot simpler. The old adage still applies.... the more complicated the plumbing, the easier to stop up the drain. The 2.8L inline 4 diesel in my Jeep would take on anything thing the V6 could. Just increase displacement to the 3.0L and have a great engine. Less complicated, efficient, and reliable.

But there is something to be said how V diesels just are no longer a part of the scene for the last 30 years in heavy commercial trucks. Inlines are way better in many aspects.

Of course, the newer design around the corner.... the opposed piston, single cylinder design is just about to take off. Industry expects offerings of these engines in 5 years. Gonna be a game changer for sure.

http://www.truckinginfo.com/channel/fuel...years-away.aspx