Racing engine oils

Doug Hillary · Nov 4, 2003

Hi, I get asked from time to time "...what are the best oil brands/types/viscosities for "club" style racing..." There must be lots of experience out there - care to contribute? Thanks & Regards Doug Hillary ‘02 Subaru Outback ‘98 BMW Z3 2.8 ‘89 Porsche 928 S4

sprintman · Nov 4, 2003

Redline and it's easily available all over Qld. Motul 300V and NEO if money no object. VP Racing Fuels lubes will be here soon and they will be quiet something.

Flimflam · Nov 4, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Doug Hillary: Hi, I get asked from time to time "...what are the best oil brands/types/viscosities for "club" style racing..." There must be lots of experience out there - care to contribute? Thanks & Regards Doug Hillary ‘02 Subaru Outback ‘98 BMW Z3 2.8 ‘89 Porsche 928 S4

Monograde, monograde, monograde. Cold starts and buzzing off at full throttle with an engine block at 32 deg Fahrenheit is not an issue in racing. There is usually a team of mechanics to make sure the engine is fully warmed up, etc. before the fun begins. And once the fireworks start, you want something that will maintain oil pressure. That's monograde, my friend. And something moderately heavy, like SAE 30, or SAE 40.

theguru · Nov 4, 2003

The Motul 300v is a lot cheaper than the Redline (and Neo of course). I paid $72.00 last time for 4 litres. I think the Redline is about $120.

Leo · Nov 4, 2003

Motul 300V. Their 15W-50 is well known to be one of the best off the shelf competition oils. Even Subaru sell it in Europe as their oil of choice for competition WRX STi's. Apparently ELF HTX833 is an absolute killer of an oil, but at $40/L, its pretty much inaccessible to most of the public.

speedybenz · Nov 5, 2003

The Motul may protect well, but it pulls a ton of power out a motor. So your motor may run a little longer but you will get you butt kicked down every straight. The above is all based on extensive dyno testing. JEff

Doug Hillary · Nov 5, 2003

Hi, Speedybenz - what oil gave the best results? And, what Motul viscosity was used? Regards

Primus · Nov 5, 2003

Motul 300V viscosity grades may satisfy any customer. There are only 2 problems with Motul: unclear situation with oil properties and the company's unwillingness to correspond with customers. So, it looks like something wrong either with 300V oils or with company's managment. How to explain 4,3-8,5 % shear stability index if, according to Motul 300V does not contain viscosity modifier ? What type of cheap esters is used if Flash Point is only 218 C ? What base stock changes have lead to drastical changes in Flash Point and Noack volatility: 10W-40 - from 218 C and 6,5 % to 236 C and 6 %, 15W-50 - from 232 C and 4 % to 218 C and 8 % ? Apparently Motul has nothing to say over their usual reference to some history of 80th-beginning of 90th when a good PAO oil was quite rare, and claims they are still f..cking genious.

Primus · Nov 5, 2003

In addition: http://www.motulcanada.ca/

TC · Nov 5, 2003

Doug: Until a year ago I had the exact same 928 you did -- I called it "Red Beast" since it was so tail-happy during club racing events, and yes...it was red. (My '84 944, on the other hand, handled brilliantly on the track, even better than Britney Spears does in bed, or so I've heard.) The more viscosity modifiers (such as in multiweights) there are in an oil, the less oil there is by percentage, and oil is what lubricates, not viscosity modifiers. Hence, Flimflam's advice regarding monoweights for race cars is sound, although it sounds like you may be referring to combination street/track cars which actually spend most of their time on the highway...? If so, a 20w-50 or other appropriate multiweight for your climate might be a good choice. Rather than suggesting brands or oil types, I would think that oil spec sheets that show a comparatively high flash point, high viscosity index, good high temp/high shear viscosity, good Noack, and relatively high zinc with a bit of moly thrown in might be helpful. Would others agree with this..? Or, to make life simpler, look into oils which incorporate some of these attributes and are marketed as "racing" lubes. And at the track, always remember, "The shiny side faces up!!!" [ November 06, 2003, 01:33 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

yannis · Nov 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by Primus: Motul 300V viscosity grades may satisfy any customer. There are only 2 problems with Motul: unclear situation with oil properties and the company's unwillingness to correspond with customers. So, it looks like something wrong either with 300V oils or with company's managment. Primus...the canadian site is great discovery . It makes me wonder why they are posting the specs there and not in the central site in France .It temps me to go in the forum there and post the address of the canadian site. You can see people keep coming every week asking for the same technical specifications because they can't find it anywhere else -until now- but i am afraid if do it , the next day the canadian site will be <> and the info will be gone. How to explain 4,3-8,5 % shear stability index if, according to Motul 300V does not contain viscosity modifier ? Maybe this index remains stable and doesn't increase throughout the lubricant's life? What type of cheap esters is used if Flash Point is only 218 C ? I have the same question ,especially if you consider the (around)250 C flash point in red line's oils. What base stock changes have lead to drastical changes in Flash Point and Noack volatility: 10W-40 - from 218 C and 6,5 % to 236 C and 6 %, 15W-50 - from 232 C and 4 % to 218 C and 8 % ? Apparently Motul has nothing to say over their usual reference to some history of 80th-beginning of 90th when a good PAO oil was quite rare, and claims they are still f..cking genious.

Speedybenz Where have you been hiding?? I was desperately looking for a second person to confirm the same odd??(not now) problem that i had when i was using the 300V 10W40.. power loss and rougher idling... Thank you althought this oil did a terrific job reducing the excessive heat in my engine . And....Primus did you see that it's density in 15 C is 0.896!!! the 300V 15W60 has 0.886 !! [freaknout]

[ November 06, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: yannis ]

Primus · Nov 6, 2003

Yes, Yannis, the density is another question. Motul has changed something in their formulations since before 2001-2002 the density of each of 300V, except probably 5W-40, was different: . 5W-30 ..... 0,877 . 5W-40 ..... 0,893 10W-40 ..... 0,880 15W-50 ..... 0,887 15W-60 ..... 0,892

theguru · Nov 6, 2003

Not sure if this is of any help, but here is Motuls description of their Ester base. Motul Ester base

speedybenz · Nov 6, 2003

For power output we did not find any oils that did better than Mobil 1, 5-30wt. Motul 0-40wt would be down 5 Hp on M1. Another oil that was very good and maybe a little better for engine wear was Chevron Delo 400, 0-30wt syn. It was a special order product, but made as good if not slightly better Hp numbers and did a great job inside the engine, but cost more money. Mobil 1 did not have the new 0-20wt out in 2000 but I would be very tempted to try it out provided the oil pressure was good within the rpm band you run on the race track. Lots of thicker oils generated too much oil pressure which did nothing more than cost Hp. But realize we changed oil after each weekend. [ November 07, 2003, 01:36 AM: Message edited by: speedybenz ]

yannis · Nov 6, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by theguru: Not sure if this is of any help, but here is Motuls description of their Ester base. Motul Ester base

This was great help especially the pro testimonies ..i found the aswers to all my questions.. These are some extracts that i liked the most Sakiyama Auto Service Center .."MOTUL: What is a suitable viscosity? Sakiyama: I think the ones specified by the manufacturer are good. I think it's best to comply with it. Recently, people have been asking for lubricants by their viscosity index, and they usually ask for viscosities as low as 5W. Those that know their cars very well(me.. ) [Smile]

, will say that it makes the engine heavy and sluggish. So, then I'll recommend the 4100 or something lighter. It's usually a good idea to observe the instruction manual. I can't tell you to use the 15W-60 Le Mans in the middle of winter unless you drive the same way you do like in a circuit, the engine will heat up faster and the oil pressure will rise. If this is the case then the Le Mans is suitable...... The Midori Seibi Center ..MOTUL: Do you think MOTUL is better resistant to heat and oil pressure? Uchinaga: Yes, I do. For a lubricant to be considered good, it needs to be able to conduct heat away quickly. You can immediately tell when a low quality lubricant is used - the car performs well early in the morning, but later in the afternoon when the external temperature rises, the engine will start to feel heavy and sluggish. This makes driving more tiring." Speedybenz ..thank you for shearing this info with us.

Racing engine oils

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