I have heard that the pprice of freon went up on the newer r-134. Any reason why?
r-134 Freon prices
- Thread starter goodoleboy
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I noticed this too. I dunno the reason
This may mean something
Maybe is purely demand driven. I couldn't find any contemporary articles on it. But the stuff has basically tripled in price. Perhaps legit R-12 supplies are finally drying up and the industry is forced to retrofit everything.
[ February 26, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Maybe is purely demand driven. I couldn't find any contemporary articles on it. But the stuff has basically tripled in price. Perhaps legit R-12 supplies are finally drying up and the industry is forced to retrofit everything.
[ February 26, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Yea it seems it has gone up by 3 fold on average I see. I use to get cans of 12oz r134a by the case for around $3 each, now they go for anywhere from $7-14 a can
I own 4 refrigeration supply houses. I shopped for R134 today 30lb cylinders and the lowest I found was $220.00 per drum. And they limit how many you can purchase. They may allow me to buy 80 drums. I was told by a couple of mfgs. the reason prices are up is that they have lost money on this product for 10 years. And there are fewer plants making R134. The mfgs. of refrigerant are also not selling to the repackagers. These are the companies that sell the small 10oz cans. All of the refrigerant prices are rising. A month ago I was selling R134 30lb cylinders for $91.00. I was told today my cost would be over $300.00 before the end of the month.
Just another sign of NO INFLATION except on everything you really buy, read gas, food housing, insurance, etc.
[ March 01, 2005, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
[ March 01, 2005, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
I found three. They all have their theory on why it's happening. Good site btw if you have A/C problems.
http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/2004Q1/16200.html
http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/2004Q1/15922.html
http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/2004Q1/15844.html
It is your government, remember, they are here to help.
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I went to the ac site ...I saw only one mention of R134a ..but there was some mention of some Montreal accord that limited the production of some refridgerants in 2004.
You gotta love how these "evolutions" tend to extract the maximum $$ yield from the consumer via "back door" mandates.
You ban R-12 due to valid reason. You replace it with an alleged evironmentally sound alternative ..that can be retrofitted. You then restrict the availability of this item and set goals to replace it with a yet unknown product that is yet to be produced ..having no knowledge as to the economic viability, or yet unknown enviromental side effects, of the yet not created item.
Why not just go to older poisonous R vapor (ammonia ..chlorine) and just live with the resultant deaths in liability insurance
People aren't in short supply ..resources are (No, I'm not being serious)
Here's (I think) the reason
Apparently we have replaced CFCs with HCFCs. They are far more ozone friendly ..but still damaging. So they have been set to be banned by certain dates. Since they have a known market life (or end of life) and are probably under patent, they're recouping "future" lost revenue (perhaps).
[ March 01, 2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
You gotta love how these "evolutions" tend to extract the maximum $$ yield from the consumer via "back door" mandates.
You ban R-12 due to valid reason. You replace it with an alleged evironmentally sound alternative ..that can be retrofitted. You then restrict the availability of this item and set goals to replace it with a yet unknown product that is yet to be produced ..having no knowledge as to the economic viability, or yet unknown enviromental side effects, of the yet not created item.
Why not just go to older poisonous R vapor (ammonia ..chlorine) and just live with the resultant deaths in liability insurance
Here's (I think) the reason
Apparently we have replaced CFCs with HCFCs. They are far more ozone friendly ..but still damaging. So they have been set to be banned by certain dates. Since they have a known market life (or end of life) and are probably under patent, they're recouping "future" lost revenue (perhaps).
[ March 01, 2005, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Kestas
Staff member
I guess it's time to use Duracool (HC refrigerant).
Kestas
Staff member
The last I heard, use of HC refrigerants is banned in 17 states. The EPA web site gives detailed information.
How long have your cars lasted with Duracool? It's the longevity of a repair that I look for.
How long have your cars lasted with Duracool? It's the longevity of a repair that I look for.
I've used Duracool in two cars, and can highly recommend it. Up here in Canada, there are no restrictions on using an HC refrigerant, but I think it differs from state to state and perhaps the EPA has their noses in it as well.
The one car (88 Nissan Maxima) was going strong into it's second summer when I was rear ended and it was written off. The other car had a leaky evaporator - enough r134 had leaked out that the low pressure switch kicked in. I topped up with some Duracool I had left over from the Maxima project, and the system ran perfectly fine and cold for two weeks until I had the evaporator repaired. From what I've read, as long as your system is in good repair, the Duracool should last as long as any other refrigerant, if not longer. The lubricating oil it comes with is compatible with 134 or 12 and doesn't form an acid if moisture gets in the system like r134 lube does. Also, Duracool and HC in general create lower head pressure when the compressor is running - lower head pressure should equate to less wear on the compressor.
Went to Wal Mart today, all they have is "high mileage" R134a with some sort of cleaner-conditioner in it. Still about $6 a can. 3 WMs I went to were out of plain R134A. PoopBoys was 12.99 a can! But they had it in stock. Any harm or negatives using this "high mileage" stuff? Not too sure about additives in the AC system.
Kestas
Staff member
The last time I went to WalMart, all they had was r134 with stop-leak and dye added. Don't use it! I've seen nasty pictures of what the stop leak does to the a/c internals, not to mention the recovery machines at a/c shops. I'm not sure what this cleaner-conditioner is... maybe they just renamed it?
Why anybody in their right mind would put stop-leak in an a/c system is beyond me!.... wishful thinking? If you put it in and it doesn't stop the leak (or reappears after a short while), then you're in for a very expensive repair! The way stop-leak is formulated is that it hardens upon contact with air. If you have any air in your a/c system, it'll gum up the works to the point that you'll have to replace EVERYTHING!
The red dye doesn't impress me either. The best leak detection is with UV dye and black light.
At $12.99 a can, I'd convert to Duracool.
Why anybody in their right mind would put stop-leak in an a/c system is beyond me!.... wishful thinking? If you put it in and it doesn't stop the leak (or reappears after a short while), then you're in for a very expensive repair! The way stop-leak is formulated is that it hardens upon contact with air. If you have any air in your a/c system, it'll gum up the works to the point that you'll have to replace EVERYTHING!
The red dye doesn't impress me either. The best leak detection is with UV dye and black light.
At $12.99 a can, I'd convert to Duracool.
A few years ago I had an old '79 Malibu with a leaky compressor seal. Even here in Mexico, R-12 was very expensive. I charged the system with Butane (Mexican LPG) and it worked pretty good but the high/low pressure difference was not very great. So I added a squirt of Propane (from a Coleman stove bottle!) which brought the high side up and it worked like a champ! It worked too good...The evaporator would ice up. I drove that car for a year like that, before I got scared about the fire in the passenger compartment problem should the evaporator fail, which is pretty rare but it does happen...But if prices get out of hand for "Freon", people will resort to dangerous solutions...I replaced the butane with "Freeze 12" which I have used in several older cars with no problems.
Kestas
Staff member
So rare in fact that it hasn't happened. There are no documented cases of terrible fires from HC refrigerants. Should enough HC refrigerant escape and accumulate in the passenger cabin, I expect the smell would provide ample warning for people to open their windows before it accumulates to dangerous levels.
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