Questions about buying cars at dealerships

[7055]

When you ask them if they're firm on the price and the salesman tells you that he has to go talk to his manager to see if he can budge on price any, is there any degree of truth to this at all? Do car salesmen really have no authority of their own to actually negotiate and sell a vehicle and can only go through the mysterious manager whom apparently sits at his desk all day negotiating the price of cars without ever even talking to the person they're selling it to?

I'm just wondering if there's any degree of honesty behind the fact that they always have to go "ask their manager" about budging on the price or if is 100% a game with the intent of creating the illusion that there's no room to budge on the price of the vehicle and wearing the customer down to agreeing on whatever price they have set.

 

[2civics]

It gives them the advantage in negotiations. Most salesmen have a sheet that tells them what they have in the car. It seems like they would be able to negotiate off that sheet. I've yet to see it where they don't "consult" the manager though. Would be refreshing wouldn't it?
Additionally, the manager is negotiating, in a way with the salesman as to what his commission will be at a certain price point.

 

[The_German]

Just tell them you are heavily shopping around, you are looking for the best price with all the dealer add-ons thrown in.

Take his or her business card.

The challenge and competition will excite a real salesperson and you will do well.

The phony sales people won't work with you but there are limits, hit up 3-4 local dealerships and keep on them for a few weeks until you yourself KNOW you are getting a great deal. Know the cheapest times of the year to shop if you don't mind end of year sales (you get a great deal but the car is a year old on paper but if you don't intend to sell it it is a great way to get a killer deal).

No other way around it unless you know someone who can push on your behalf which works AMAZING as well.

But, knowing the exact car you want is 99% of it.

If you know the exact car you want and the exact trim level and colour you are really on easy street it is simple to haggle the best deal that they can give where you can still have a good relationship with that dealer, there really are limits.

Just remember, at the end of all the stress, you should now have a great car at an amazing deal, but at the same time you have a great Salesman who helped get you there, so now you know good people that you enjoy doing business with which down the line, if done well, will translate into a great service relationship as well but all of this requires the invested footwork.

Treat it as a hobby, have fun.

Anyone unloading close to 30k on a commuter car, IMO, should feel ecstatic afterwards with a great honeymoon period in a great car.

If this didn't happen, you didn't prepare yourself and you walked away with signed papers and an unsure / uneasy feeling.

Don't do this. Take the bus and do it right even.

 

[7055]

Yes I understand the many ways to find a good deal on a car and I appreciate the reply, I'm just wondering if there is any truth to the "consult the manager" game that is always played.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I've only bought one new car but I hit it lucky. Previous model year that they were trying to get rid of.

I saw the sticker on the door. The price the sales guy was below that the first time and ended up dropping a few times to $4k below sticker.

Couldn't complain. Probably won't buy a new car ever again.

 

[The_German]

The consult the manager tactic is a very flexible way to ease negotiations without creating any volatility between you and your Salesperson.

Also, if the deal falls apart it is easier on the Salesperson in some situations to call you back because he "fought on your behalf".

I have no arguments with this age old practice, sometimes the pen is so close to hitting the paper to close that a fight can break out over free all season mats.

Do it yourself. You don't feel you have the upper hand or things aren't going fairly, walk away and say you have to talk to your "Boss" as well and they will assume your husband/wife etc.

Saves a good amount of face. This is a ton of money and I hope you do great and let us know how it went!

 

[PR1955]

The manager is held accountable to the dealer/owner so yes, I would think he/she should be involved in any negotiation.

 

[raytseng]

have you guys not seen fargo?



The only way I think is if there's some complexity I your deal like you have a trade in or financing and they can adjust or give you more money for the tradein on one side of the house to make the other side of the house happy.

 

[The_German]

I'd like to add I have only owned two new cars in my life myself.

I don't plan on getting a new car again.

Remember, the single largest expense of a new car is depreciation. Let someone else pay it for you.

But if I were to go for a new car for a third time, what I wrote is what I would do myself.

(Also I am tired of worrying about a new car, nothing is more fun than a 5 year old car that runs well IMHO but I am HEAVILY $$$ limited).

All the best I am excited with you on this!

 

[KrisZ]

Maybe the manager has to approve on the final price, but the back and forth thing is definitely a game designed to create a "good cop/bad cop" scenario designed to wear out the buyer.
My last purchase was quite good largely because there was no back and forth games. I informed the salesman that I will only entertain the final, out the door price, he presented his number, I countered with about 11% or 12% below his, which was already a bit below sticker, he went to see his manager and came back with the offer approved. Done and done. Was it the best price? Most likely not, but I got the vehicle that I wanted, with options that I wanted and I didn't have to spend hours playing their games.

Now, if my counter was a low ball offer, thing would probably play out differently.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

The last time we bought a car (daughter's Impreza), we got the "consult the manager" runaround after our test drive and wasted a lot of time.
He called my wife the next day and she told him we had emails offering better prices from nearby dealers...he asked her to forward them and then immediately offered her a price just slightly above those after reading them. Apparently, the manager did not need to be consulted at that point...we paid the little bit extra to get some free oil changes at a dealer that was much closer to us than the ones we had been emailing. Not sure if the salesman was actually talking to the manager when we were in the showroom or that was just a tactic.

When I bought my FXT, it was just me and the salesman. It was the only turbo Forester Touring on the lot anywhere near me and I had decided I was either going to buy it or buy new summer tires for my "RAV6" and wait until fall for a new car (my snows were also shot)...we went back and forth a few times until we were both happy, actually was a fairly pleasant process. I decided to not walk away and come back later looking for a lower price because I didn't want to worry about somebody else grabbing the car. The salesman was an older guy and I'd guess he had earned the right to negotiate without running to the sales manager ten times.

 

[RTexasF]

When I sold cars many years ago the salespeople had no idea of the cost of the vehicle. We HAD to go to a "manager" who would give us a price to present to the customer. Management knew to the penny what was in each vehicle so they held all the cards.

With one exception with a dealer that trusted their salespeople selling boats was the same way.....manager.

 

[The_German]

^+1

The process is in place for millions of reasons.

Age is a huge factor when dealing in sales since the profession started only God knows when.

They aren't selling washing machines and you aren't looking to spend your hard earned cash on a bad deal.

The process is there so everyone has a buffer. They want to sell you a car just as much as you wish to purchase one.

Enjoy the process, I'd worry if it changed.

 

[tgrudzin]

"When you ask them if they're firm on the price and the salesman tells you that he has to go talk to his manager to see if he can budge on price any, is there any degree of truth to this at all?"
Actually yes. Salesman aren't given the final numbers of what a car is owned for. Managers are. Some sales people have been there awhile and know the prices, but still have to check. You might be talking with someone new to the sales position/team/dealer. If you take in account the numbers of different models and trim packages within each model, no one knows all the prices. At Carmax, because there is no negotiation, I'm sure the manager isn't consulted.

 

[7055]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
have you guys not seen fargo?



The only way I think is if there's some complexity I your deal like you have a trade in or financing and they can adjust or give you more money for the tradein on one side of the house to make the other side of the house happy.



LOL, thanks for the laugh

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: 7055
Yes I understand the many ways to find a good deal on a car and I appreciate the reply, I'm just wondering if there is any truth to the "consult the manager" game that is always played.


It is a game. Plain and simple. There to wear you down. If analyzed from a labor standpoint, it shows how disempowered and replaceable the salesmen are. They don't even get the spreadsheet on the real money into the car.

So in a nutshell, there is a guy in a room 30 feet from you who a guy sitting three feet from you has to go talk to for you back and forth in an effort to wear you down. And that middle man is likely a fair amount "in the dark" as you are.

Bizarre really. It's like the whole insurance adjuster game.

 

[panther427]

Some of its a game. Some of it is newer sales person can not make a call on prices. Some of it is to take a break and let people calm down. It just depends. Sometimes its necessary. Other times its not

 

[09_GXP]

I've seen management oversight like this spreading to a number of industries not just car buying. I have a family member who has sold carpet and windows for two different companies over the past couple years and in each case they have gone to a similar model. The salesman, while in the customer's home, has to call headquarters and get approval for a certain price on the product. If the customer decides they want something different after a deal has been reached then it starts all over again. It really hinders good salespeople but keeps the lower level salespeople from giving a deal that's not right and therefore ruining the customers perception when someone else won't give the same deal.

 

[czbrian]

This thread just stirs up bad memories of buying cars in the past. I've bought 4 care in my life and sat with my younger brother for a couple. All but the most recent purchase of my Volt drug out way longer than the process should have. With the Volt, the manager just walked over to the salesman's cubicle and the deal was ironed out including my trade in value in like 15 minutes. Maybe because nobody was buying Volts and they just wanted to get rid of it. My next purchase is either going to be from that same dealership or I'm just going to order a Tesla Model 3 off the website.

 

[Donald]

When they consult with manager they talk about the weather or a date or football. Not the car price. Salesman knows what he can sell it for.

But if he comes back from manager it makes you believe you got a super deal.

The dealer these days seem to make money on document fees and add-on like paint protection or extended warranty.

It's so easy to get the invoice price these days that everyone knows it and thus dealer needs some new tricks.