Question on Job Interview Etiquette

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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I think the hardest part would be to find an attorney who would take the case. Most attorneys won't touch a case if they won't make a minimum of $10,000.
You don't need an attorney. You just send it to the EEOC and if there's a case, they handle it.
Not worth the trouble. Look for another job.
Well yeah that too, just commenting that an attorney wasn't needed if OP wanted to pursue. Life might be too short to go after every injustice out there.
 

bunnspecial

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Yeah, there's honestly nothing to be gained by any further correspondence. Word can "get around" and I don't want to kill my chances in the area. I actually showed my department chair(i.e. my current boss) the entire chain of correspondence today. I'll also mention that although he doesn't want to lose me as an employee, he understands the reason for my job search and has been totally supportive of me(in fact he's from the area so has given me some suggestions on places to look). After he read through the whole thing, he agreed that the entire exchange was absolutely nuts and that if he were hiring he would be favorably impressed by an applicant who wouldn't shirk their current responsibilities to chase a job interview. He also gave me a bit of further insight-he suggested that the reason WHY the application remains open is that if the chair is anything in person like the temperament shown in the email, that anyone qualified likely wouldn't accept an offer. He wrapped up the conversation by naming a faculty member in our department who the email reminded him of, something with which I agreed, and said "would you want that person to be your boss?" So, the search continues. BTW, this is what I would say is the first "bad" interview experience I've had in the area, although I've yet to receive an offer from anyone. I had one interview at a different-very small-school in the area that I thought went exceptionally well but I didn't get it. I happened to run into one of the interviewers from that position a few weeks after the rejection, and they were very apologetic and said I was overwhelmingly the favorite but that they couldn't pay me anything close to what they thought I was worth and didn't want to insult me with an offer. That was another sort of strange conversation and it honestly was probably true but I did offer to keep me in mind in the future and they might be surprised at what I would accept.
 
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Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Thanks again everyone. I did send a simple "Thank you for your time and the opportunity to speak with you about the position" last night and left it at that. I'll keep looking!
Good job!
 
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Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Alright, bullet REALLY dodged. I just received a rather long response to my simple "Thank you for your time and the opportunity" chastising me for wasting their time. The email then went on to advise me that all the "young job seekers" like me need to realize that it's disrespectful to apply for a position and then not be willing to accommodate an interview "whenever it is convenient for the interviewer." The entire email honestly was a bit of a rant aimed squarely at me for my perceived "lack of dedication" to prospective employers and also claimed that they're having trouble hiring anyone for the position because no one "under 40" is willing to "do what is asked of them." I had to read the email 3 times to make sure I was reading it right! So this has definitely been a learning experience, and also a sure confirmation that I would have likely been miserable working there. Needles to say, the most recent email won't be getting a response.
Wow...that is bordering on the bizarre. You're supposed to drop all your compensated work for your present job to accommodate some egomaniac who MIGHT give you a job?!?!? Ridiculous! I went through a couple of phone screens with a Boston area defense R&D center some time ago, wasn't too serious about it but it was an interesting experience. I viewed them as a pseudo-academic operation as they originally sprung out of MIT. First phone screen was with a guy who clearly was just going through the motions at the start of the call, but ended up telling me he was very enthused about having me go through a conference call screen and then down to their site. I found the conference call to be hilarious...most of the time was spent discussing a hypothetical situation about a project I would be leading. I was asked what I would do if there was no consensus amongst the team members about how to proceed with solving a difficult technical problem. Me - "I would discuss the problem in detail with all the team members, do my best to achieve a consensus in a reasonable amount of time, and then choose what I felt was the best course of action based on the discussions if no consensus was achieved." Frantic Guy - "No, no, you can't do that!! You have to get everybody to agree first." Me - "You said I'm in charge of the project, right?" Somebody - "Yes." Me - "As the project leader, I have to do what I can to keep the project moving forward and I would have to make the decision as to the course of action in that case. That's part of being a leader, and I would certainly take the viewpoints of the other team members into account when I made my decision...but it would be my call in the end, and my responsibility if things didn't go right." Frantic Guy - "NO NO NO!!! That's not how it works here!!! You have to get everybody to agree! That's how we do things!" Me, laughing - "How do you get anything done, then? Why do you have project leaders?" This went on for at least half and hour and we all agreed I was not the right guy to work on that team.
 
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Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Yeah, there's honestly nothing to be gained by any further correspondence. Word can "get around" and I don't want to kill my chances in the area. I actually showed my department chair(i.e. my current boss) the entire chain of correspondence today. I'll also mention that although he doesn't want to lose me as an employee, he understands the reason for my job search and has been totally supportive of me(in fact he's from the area so has given me some suggestions on places to look). After he read through the whole thing, he agreed that the entire exchange was absolutely nuts and that if he were hiring he would be favorably impressed by an applicant who wouldn't shirk their current responsibilities to chase a job interview. He also gave me a bit of further insight-he suggested that the reason WHY the application remains open is that if the chair is anything in person like the temperament shown in the email, that anyone qualified likely wouldn't accept an offer. He wrapped up the conversation by naming a faculty member in our department who the email reminded him of, something with which I agreed, and said "would you want that person to be your boss?" So, the search continues. BTW, this is what I would say is the first "bad" interview experience I've had in the area, although I've yet to receive an offer from anyone. I had one interview at a different-very small-school in the area that I thought went exceptionally well but I didn't get it. I happened to run into one of the interviewers from that position a few weeks after the rejection, and they were very apologetic and said I was overwhelmingly the favorite but that they couldn't pay me anything close to what they thought I was worth and didn't want to insult me with an offer. That was another sort of strange conversation and it honestly was probably true but I did offer to keep me in mind in the future and they might be surprised at what I would accept.
I'd guess they are thinking that you might possibly take their "low" offer and just keep looking and then leave when you found something more lucrative. Use them as a "bridge", so to speak, and then leave them with the need to go through the hiring process again in a short time. Not insinuating that this is what you would do, but just how I read their thought process.
 
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Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
... I'd guess they are thinking that you might possibly take their "low" offer and just keep looking and then leave when you found something more lucrative. Use them as a "bridge", so to speak, and then leave them with the need to go through the hiring process again in a short time. Not insinuating that this is what you would do, but just how I read their thought process.
Possibly, or the decision-maker could have been of the mindset that a person *has* to want to constantly move up and couldn't process that the OP would have legitimately been interested despite the pay cut. Sometimes there are non-financial considerations that make up for a pay cut. At my current employer I applied for an internal posting which was a level down, but my salary was still within the pay-scale so I wouldn't have to take a pay cut if I was to take the position. I think the HR-screener's head was about to explode because she couldn't fathom why I would be willing to take a job in the next lower pay-grade. During the screening interview she asked me 3 times if I know that the position I was currently in was level "x" and the position I posted for was "x-1" and she was still puzzled after I'd asked if my salary fit in the pay-scale and she confirmed that it was and that I wouldn't have to take a pay cut.
 
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bunnspecial

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Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I'd guess they are thinking that you might possibly take their "low" offer and just keep looking and then leave when you found something more lucrative. Use them as a "bridge", so to speak, and then leave them with the need to go through the hiring process again in a short time. Not insinuating that this is what you would do, but just how I read their thought process.
Good point, and if the roles were reversed I could see taking the same attitude. It was at a small school and they did stress to me in a post-formal-interview conversation(i.e. talking with one of the interviewers when they were walking out of the building) that HR sets the pay but to just remember that they were small. I responded my telling them how the entire atmosphere of the school reminded me of my undergraduate school(which was also small), how much I liked that atmosphere, and ended the conversation with "This kind of environment is worth a lot to me. Of course I have to pay the bills, but at the same time that's something that I can't put a price on" or some words to that effect. Still, though, hopefully they might keep me in mind if something else did open up.
 
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Originally Posted by bunnspecial
Alright, bullet REALLY dodged. I just received a rather long response to my simple "Thank you for your time and the opportunity" chastising me for wasting their time. The email then went on to advise me that all the "young job seekers" like me need to realize that it's disrespectful to apply for a position and then not be willing to accommodate an interview "whenever it is convenient for the interviewer." The entire email honestly was a bit of a rant aimed squarely at me for my perceived "lack of dedication" to prospective employers and also claimed that they're having trouble hiring anyone for the position because no one "under 40" is willing to "do what is asked of them." I had to read the email 3 times to make sure I was reading it right! So this has definitely been a learning experience, and also a sure confirmation that I would have likely been miserable working there. Needles to say, the most recent email won't be getting a response.
I'll just say that when I was a business owner with employees, I wouldn't have been impressed by any potential employee that would be willing to blow-off their obligations to their current employer. Because I'd be thinking that they'd do the same to my business, if they worked for me. I think you handled the situation appropriately.
 
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Originally Posted by 02SE
I'll just say that when I was a business owner with employees, I wouldn't have been impressed by any potential employee that would be willing to blow-off their obligations to their current employer. Because I'd be thinking that they'd do the same to my business, if they worked for me. I think you handled the situation appropriately.
This. Exactly! I remember years back when I'd changed jobs one time, at the time of my interview they wanted me to start immediately,at which I told them I couldn't because I had to give my current employer the courtesy of two weeks notice. That really impressed them and they actually thanked me for being a loyal and courteous employee, and said they look forward to seeing me in two weeks.
 

bunnspecial

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So, another bizarre twist- I had two emails in succession this morning-one from HR saying my application was being reconsidered, and another from someone else I phone interviewed with. The second email apologized for the "misunderstanding" in the previous communication, that I was clearly the most qualified applicant they had, and that they really would like me to come in for an interview as soon as possible after the new year, but at a time convenient to me. It was a night and day tone difference from the last communication. The only potential catch is that they really want someone to start before January 13th, which of course is sooner than the notice period at my current job(1 pay period, which realistically means that Feb. 1st if I got an offer tomorrow, but probably realistically more like mid-February. There's also the fact that I don't know that I can pick up and move 2 states away on that short of notice, although I could potentially make it happen sooner. I haven't responded yet, but need to today. Part of me thinks I have nothing to lose by tying, but also explaining the start timeline. Another part of me thinks that I've seen the "ugly side" of the chair, and that it's always going to be there...
 
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I'd be forthcoming with your realistic timeline, and take note of how they respond to your honoring your current obligations. I also think you're right to be wary.
 

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Alright, reply sent. I told them for a couple of reasons that I couldn't possibly start that soon, including that my current employer requires one month's notice for salaried employees and that I needed to honor that notice period. I offered a few potential interview times, including tomorrow, Thursday morning, and two different days next week. We'll see what happens-maybe I caught the chair on a bad day, but I'd that's how he acts to a prospective employee I'm scared of how a current employee might be treated.
 

bunnspecial

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Well, so much for that. I had a reply to my last email saying that she understood my situation and respected my commitment, but the department chair says that they need to hire someone who can start "immediately" if at all possible so they're putting my application on hold unless I either "reconsider" or they can't find someone else. I suspect that my interactions are a good clue as to why the position is still open after 2 months and why they seem to have issues hiring...anyone...
 

bunnspecial

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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
It's sounds like they are desperate and it's a job others did not want. Just wondering what the salary range is for this job ?
It's posted as "ommensurate with experience." The equivalent position at my current employer pays $60K a year to someone with less directly-related experience than I have. The application is in area with slightly(but not hugely) higher cost of living than where I am now, so if I were to serious discuss it with them I'd WANT $60-70K a year. Of course, I've never gotten that far and I have not discussed a potential/desired salary with them even vaguely, but I'd consider that a market-competitive salary and chances are I'd not bite at lower than $55Kish unless I just love the school/position/department(which so far seems unlikely). Of course, they may also want to hire someone for $40K a year, and to be blunt no one who is remotely qualified would even consider unless they were desperate at that amount.
 
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Originally Posted by bunnspecial
my current employer requires one month's notice for salaried employees and that I needed to honor that notice period.
BS, and not enforceable!
 

bunnspecial

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Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Originally Posted by bunnspecial
my current employer requires one month's notice for salaried employees and that I needed to honor that notice period.
BS, and not enforceable!
Enforceable or not, it's in the policy and if I started when they want, I'd be giving a week and a half notice at best(my work is closed until Thursday). I don't want to burn any bridges by leaving an employer that's been good to me high and dry-aside from the logistics of having to relocate a few states away on such short notice.
 
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I'd withdraw my application. Denial emails, unprofessional emails, reconsideration emails, two unreasonable demands on your time and acting immature when told no. That place is a mess.
 
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Originally Posted by Leo99
I'd withdraw my application. Denial emails, unprofessional emails, reconsideration emails, two unreasonable demands on your time and acting immature when told no. That place is a mess.
+1
 
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