Question for Jay

[oiloverflow]

For the last about 3 weeks I'm frantically trying to catch up with plethora of information on this board. Excellent source of info, knowleadgeable people, good advice. I own a 2002 Acura RSX, not S type, just premium with 2l engine, 160 hp with some mods (catback, CAI from K&N). Manufacturer recommends 5W20 oil which was used for the break-in period, up to 24,000km (15k miles). Now I have Amsoil 5W30 in it but after reading about 0W30 Mobil 1 SS I'd like to switch to that one. Now the question:

I've noticed a drop in mileage since I put 5W30 in it, would 0W30 help? I'm getting about 3miles less per gallon than before. I'm living in colder climate, winter time it drops to minus 35C ocassionally (-30F), summertime goes up to +35C (95F). I wouldn't want to go with 0W40 as maybe it's a bit too heavy and might mess up my warranty should something go wrong. What's your thoughts on this?

Also, if anyone from Alberta is reading this, where can I get 0W30 M1 SS? I've tried all of the local suppliers - Esso, Husky, Imperial Oil but apparently main distributor in Edmonton is not even bringing it in from Eastern Canada. Am I stuck with 5W30?

Thanks for reading this

 

[Patman]

I know this makes absolutely no sense, but Mobil 1 doesn't seem to sell 0w30 up here in Canada anywhere! And there are some parts of Canada that get downright cold enough to certainly need it. I personally wouldn't run it unless my area got to -40 degrees a lot, but in some areas (like Winnipeg) it could certainly get that cold here. I'm lucky that Toronto rarely goes below 0F.

 

[oiloverflow]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
I know this makes absolutely no sense, but Mobil 1 doesn't seem to sell 0w30 up here in Canada anywhere! And there are some parts of Canada that get downright cold enough to certainly need it. I personally wouldn't run it unless my area got to -40 degrees a lot, but in some areas (like Winnipeg) it could certainly get that cold here. I'm lucky that Toronto rarely goes below 0F.

---

Here in Calgary it gets to minus 35 regularly between chinooks. Even last night it was already minus 12C (10F), that's why I thought 0W30 would be justified for our climate's cold starts. Looks like I'll have to either use 5W30 or order 0W30 from US.

 

[Jay]

I chose the M1 0w-30 because it was the thinnest of Mobil 1's 30-weights at the time. I also thought it would be slightly thinner while warming up than the 5w-30. In the new SS formula, 0w-30 is the thickest of M1's 30-weights and 5w-30 is the thinnest. I was wrong about the 0w-30 being thinner at lower temps. If you plot both oils on a viscosity-vs-temp chart the lines nearly overlay all the way to -40.

I got good gas mileage on the 0w-30. I noticed no difference between it and the factory-fill 5w-20. My oil consumption was higher with it though. I used 3/4 qt in 5,000mi -- 1/3 that on the 5w-20. Both oils gave good oil analysis results. They are posted here.

I think the 0w-30 makes good sense in your area. I'm trying the 5w-30 next because it's cheaper and I hope it will be less volatile.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

I've got the 2002 Civic Si , with similar engine, and I have been running 5w-30 Castrol , and Castrol Semi-synthetic blend. My mileage has gone down drastically, but it only got real worse after I put on my aftermarket intake, so I'm not sure what is going on. When I switched oil viscosity my mileage dropped, but not buy a very large amount, it got much worse after my intake was installed. I don't think motor oil can affect mileage by 3mpg all by iteself, so it may be something else as well as the oil.

Technically speaking a 0-30 oil and 5w-30 oil are supposed to have the same viscosity when warmed up so it probably won't help mileage very much by going to 0-30. A good synthetic 5w-30 will flow at very cold temps, something like Mobil1 5w-30 is pours at -55+ degrees, and is very useable at -40 degrees, so plenty of protection in extreme cold weather. Mobil1 5w-30 is also on the low end of the 30 weight viscosity so it is a tad bit thinner than most 30 weights, and shouldn't be too bad on fuel economy. I'd probably use Mobil1 5-30 or 0-30 if you can find it, for your application.

Personally I like the extra protection offered by the 5w-30, so that is why I am using it, I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of fuel economy (compared to 5w-20). But like I listed above, drastic drops in fuel economy are not likely a result of going to 5w-30 oil, other factors may be at work in your situation (as they are in mine). hth.

Joey

 

[3xSHO]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oiloverflow:
Also, if anyone from Alberta is reading this, where can I get 0W30 M1 SS? I've tried all of the local suppliers - Esso, Husky, Imperial Oil but apparently main distributor in Edmonton is not even bringing it in from Eastern Canada. Am I stuck with 5W30?

Thanks for reading this[/QB]

---

Hello from Cochrane!
Give Miller Ag Supply in Calgary a call. They stock 0W-40 Mobil 1, so...may have 0W-30. I'll check next Monday here in Cochrane at their satellite Imperial Oil distributor (picked up 6 liters of 0W-40 from them).

 

[Propflux01]

If your mileage droped from your recnet manifold exchange, I would think that it was being caused by too much plenum area. this will cause fuel to 'pool up' in the manifold, causing the mixture to fall out of suspension forcing you to recal for a richer mixture, or casuing the computer to do it for you. the oil should not have any effect much so from the vis change, as there is really not too much difference in the colds start flows anyhow. and even in Canada, don't most vehicles there have a block heater or equivelent to keep things alittle warmer than Mobile Ones lowest pour point?

 

[sprintman]

oiloverflow
I think M1 0W40 readily available in Canada. Should do the job well IMHO.

 

[Dominic]

I don't live in canada, far from it actually, but even here we get slightly worse mileage in the winter due to the longer warm up periods which take more fuel.

 

[OneQuartLow]

A 3MPG drop is big. Could it have to do with a change in gasoline formulations during the winter? I don't know if your pump gas changes seasonally like it does in some regions but that could explain things.

Ten years ago in California, when I was eking every last MPG out of small cars, we'd notice a 10-20% drop in mileage and power with the first tank of winter oxygenated gasoline. Usually started sometime in October. Not sure if it reduced emissions as effectively as it did efficiency.

David

 

[ShootingStar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JSIR:
I've got the 2002 Civic Si , with similar engine, and I have been running 5w-30 Castrol , and Castrol Semi-synthetic blend. My mileage has gone down drastically, but it only got real worse after I put on my aftermarket intake, so I'm not sure what is going on.
Joey

---

JSIR, Did you reset the ECU after changing over to the new intake? I'm not sure EXACTLY how on your car, but on all the B series Honda/Acura cars, it's always a good idea to reset the ECU after any intake/exhaust mods. You just pull the ECU fuse for a few minutes, then put it back in and start the car with no accessories on and let the car get up to normal temp (10-15 minutes) without touching the throttle. Shut off the motor and then restart and go play.

 

[TooSlick]

Oiloverflow,

You would normally expect a difference in fuel efficiency of about 1%, in going up from a 5w-20 to a 5w-30 grade. If you went to a 5w-40, you'd lose another 1%. So this difference in fuel efficiency is being caused by other factors, such as extremely cold weather and engine mods. Running your car in very cold weather will have a dramatic effect on fuel efficiency, since it takes so long to fully warm up. Even after the engine has reached a equilibrium temp, your oil temps may only be 170F-180F. Your transmission fluid or gear lube temps may only reach 140F-150F under these conditions. Even the grease in your wheel bearings is going to run thicker. You also need to check the pressure in your tires, which will drop quite a bit in cold weather.

The combined effect of these thicker fluids, combined with reduced combustion efficiency, is going to have a major effect on performance. If at all possible, I'd recommend installing some sort of engine block heater with a timer circuit. If you can prewarm the engine, it will do much better under these type of conditions ....

I would actually stick with the Amsoil 5w-20 or 0w-30 formulations for use in very cold weather, as they will flow a bit better under these conditions.

TooSlick

[ October 13, 2002, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[dragboat]

oiloverflow,

I think the Mobil 5/30 would probably do job well for you since it is readily available and will most likely protect better than a Amsoil product imo because this oil has moly and when it's plated to the parts I personally think if you are very close to another oil in cold crank pressure spec for the given ambient temp the oil with moly will give a added edge during cold starts.That's some very cold temps there. Too bad the Supersyn 0/30 is not available yet.

Moly is the shape of things to come for use in modern gasoline engines and will be near mandatory it seems for a GF-4 oil when time comes unless the oil wheel is reinvented

. Some are close now in that they are using Moly,others that don't get on the bandwagon will be left behind in oil performance.

You know, even Pennzoil and Castrol uses it in their OTC Dino formulations. Is this a must have in most cases? Possibly not but the moly technology has been put in a bottle for us,I for one am using it to my advantage. A little added protection cannot hurt

 

[TooSlick]

Dragboat,

The reason why I think Amsoil may work better than Mobil 1 in these engines is that it is formulated towards the upper end of the 30wt range in terms of operating viscosity:

Mobil 1, 10w-30 is 9.7 centistokes @ 100C, with a HT/HS of approx 3.2 Cp @ 150C
Amsoil , 10w-30 is 11.9 centistokes @ 100C,with a HT/HS of approx 3.6 Cp @ 150C

So the thicker oil will simply cushion the parts better ....besides most of these complaints are from folks already running Mobil 1.

TooSlick

 

[dragboat]

Quote:
"So the thicker oil will simply cushion the parts better ....besides most of these complaints are from folks already running Mobil 1."

I did not see any complaints other than fuel milaege whis is probably gas related or just plain cold cold weather warm up related.

I am very curious as to why you would recommend a higher VI oil over a lower VI oil for a car that gets cranked and started in temps of - 30F as the owner has posted?

I don't think that is quite what the owner is looking for here.

 

[TooSlick]

Dragboat,

The Amsoil 10w-30 has a pour point of -54F and a borderline pumping temp in the -40F range.
As I recall, the Mobil 1, 10w-30 has a pour point of -49F, so the Amsoil product actually does a bit better in this regard. If he needs something even better you could go to the Amsoil 0w-30, which will pump at even lower temps.

This is an engine clearance problem ...the idea that 50 ppm of moly will solve is highly doubtful.
I'm not trying to give you a hard time, it just seems that way

Ted

 

[TooSlick]

Dragboat,

Please delete my last two posts ...it's early and I had this confused with another thread - the guy with the piston slap problem. I understand the comments you are making now. I agree that the 0w-30 is the way to go here, if you can find it.

Sorry about that!

Ted

 

[oiloverflow]

Thank you for your advices.

JSIR, alternatively disconnect the battery for a while, that should reset your ECU when you start up the engine. Just don't forget to have your radio activation # handy or it will not play. Pulling the fuse is simpler, IMO.

3XSHO, I did call AG Miller, first he told me that the product was discontinued, then, when I pointed out that it's a brand new product -SS- he said he knows nothing about it. The guy at Brandon Lubes was more knowleadgeable, he told me about Imperial's new improved (read scaled down)catalogue, 0W30 completely omitted from it.

I'll wait till I'll hear from you if you'll find out anything in Cochrane. Thank you.

For the time being I'll leave Amsoil in, can't hurt, at least it will clean my engine. I'll be due for oil change sometimes around Christmas, maybe by then 0W30 will be available. If not, I'll use 5W30 as I'm not sure I want to pay $6.50 US+S&H/quart. Especially when I can get Red Line for $14.95/quart (all taxes incl) or Schaeffer's for around $5.50 CND.

Thank you again for your views and advices.

 

[Bror Jace]

oiloverflow, yes, you will get better mileage with the 5W20. Any car or truck will, not merely the RSX. It’s a trade-off between mileage and engine protection. IF you are using a high quality oil (Pennzoil, Red Line, new Mobil 1 Super-Syn, etc ...) And you don’t push the intervals too long (as long as you might with a heavier weight) you should see no difference in protection when running the ultra-thin 5W20. The operative words here are SHOULD NOT. The oils I mentioned are formulated with moly, a very good anti-wear agent.

We have all seen tests showing even some synthetic 5W30 oils which have sheared down to a 5W20 after just a few thousand miles. I just wouldn’t use the 5W20 stuff for more than 3,000 miles before dumping it and the filter ... except perhaps the Red Line. And even with that stuff, I wouldn’t go past 5,000 miles without lab testing of samples every additional 500 miles.

However, I think the open-air intake might be messin’ with your mass-air-flow sensor more than the 5W30 oil. I think this is a sensor you are recommended to change (a Maxima guy told me this) when using a more open air filtration system. Of course, if you are making more horsepower (even an additional 5-10) and driving the car more aggressively, that will kill your mileage as well. But you’re driving your little hot rod nice ‘n legal, right?

I was thinking of getting an RSX (I used to have an Integra) but was disappointed with it for a number of reasons. The styling is merely OK, but I don’t like what they’ve done with the Civic platform. They’ve made it taller and narrower .. And I don’t like that effect on the RSX’s body style. I also would like all the go fast goodies on the Type-S without all the “luxury” fluff that drives the price well above $20,000.

I might just lease a Ford Focus SVT. Drive it like I stole it for a few years and then get something else. Nothing on the market is really floatin’ my boat too much right now and I don’t want to make a commitment right now like I did with my little Civic ... which turned out to be a great little car. Of course there’s also the Celica GT-S, Mazda Protege5 Turbo, Civic Si and new Accord Coupe. Decisions, decisions ...

— Bror Jace