Question about NFA + M14

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3,646
Location
Worst Case, Ontario
Hey, I wanted to ask a question about the NFA regarding the recent M14 thread that was locked and figured there were some older members would could help me out. I've read that there was a period where you could register a full auto firearm before the NFA came into effect and whatever criminal history that particular firearm had would be forgiven. So, if you had an M14 with defaced serial numbers, could you not get it registered at this point and perhaps get a new serial number stamped onto it? I've read that people were paranoid about this registry and a lot of people did not register their full autos, which is why transferable ones are so valuable today. I'd be pretty paranoid myself if I had any type of firearm with a defaced serial number, full auto or not. So could that have been the reason why the gentlemen kept it on the down low and did not register it, assuming that his story is the truth? Would they have arrested you on the spot for having a gun with defaced serial numbers?
 

CT8

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15,392
Location
Idaho
Ronnie Reagan passes severe gun control laws during his term, And defacing serial numbers is a no no. To the ATF gestapo.
 

wdn

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1,641
Location
NH
If you have anything with defaced serial numbers it will be confiscated and is a federal offense. You can manufacture a rifle yourself that has no serial number but you cannot grind nor possess a ground off serial number.
 

wdn

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1,641
Location
NH
If the politics can be kept out of the discussion then we can talk about the M14 which is a very interesting firearm and a piece of American history. It probably had the shortest service life of any American rifle since the Civil War. Though I might be mistaken. You could mention the M1941 Johnson but that was in tiny numbers.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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8,528
Location
Indianapolis, IN
To stay on point of the thread, and not go all "P", there are a few things one needs to understand. The "NFA" is the National Firearms Act of 1934. It was a response to the wild-west like shootings that were becoming common place in Chicago with gangster mobs (generally accepted mantra). All newly made weapons that were capable of full auto, some AOWs, etc were covered. Also, many weapons that were previously unregistered had to be registered as well. All this with a $200 federal tax stamp for each. This included fully-auto, select-auto, and such. Also SOTs, etc. If you had an unregistered weapon that qualified, it was required to be registered. Then that info was often turned over to States, and state laws made some folks become convicted. The "GCA" is the Gun Control Act of 1968, addressed a loop-hole which caused a violation of the 5th Amendment in regard to registration "requirements". Modified some other attributes. Details can be read further. The "FOPA" is the Firearms Owner Protection Act is from 1986. It refined the concept of suppressors, and this is the point where some NFA items were no longer able to be made for public consumption. (Transfer is still legal to this day, but items capable of full-auto are no longer allowed to be made for individual purchase. Suppressors can and are still made.) Admittedly, this is not all encompassing, but it's a good place to start: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act So, as to the question of the OPs origin, as well as what lingers over from the other thread that was locked (about the old man who was sentenced to federal prison recently), here's what you need to know .... You cannot register NFA items which were previously unregistered items to yourself now; have not been able to do that for a long time. And, the government cannot require you to register an illegal weapon; it's a violation of the 5A. However, that DOES NOT IN ANY MANNER alleviate, protect or shield you from the laws of unlawful possession of an unregistered NFA controlled item. The old man was caught with an unregistered, non-serialized NFA item; that's a big no-no. If one has "found" such an item, the best thing one can do is first to contact a good State/Federal firearms attorney, then follow his/her advice. What I would say to the lawyer is very short and brief. "I have discovered this item which I believe is illegal for me to possess. I don't want it. What manner of disposal do you recommend?" Keep on target (get the pun!?!) and the thread will be allowed to continue. Go all political and it will be shut down. Behave thy selves.
 
Last edited:
Messages
390
Location
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by wdn
If you have anything with defaced serial numbers it will be confiscated and is a federal offense. You can manufacture a rifle yourself that has no serial number but you cannot grind nor possess a ground off serial number.
I don't know when manufacturers were required to serialize their firearms, and what particular requirements might have been. I have a rimfire, Remington 552, made in ABOUT 1963, without one. I have a Remington 1100, made about 1965, with one.
 
Messages
245
Location
Georgia, USA
Had a family member take advantage of that amnesty to register a couple of MP40s. IMHO, the sweetest shooting SMG made. Pity there isn't one of those total amnesty periods like every 10 years . . .
 
Messages
572
Location
Ohio
Originally Posted by George Bynum
Originally Posted by wdn
If you have anything with defaced serial numbers it will be confiscated and is a federal offense. You can manufacture a rifle yourself that has no serial number but you cannot grind nor possess a ground off serial number.
I don't know when manufacturers were required to serialize their firearms, and what particular requirements might have been. I have a rimfire, Remington 552, made in ABOUT 1963, without one. I have a Remington 1100, made about 1965, with one.
1968 is when it was required, although many firearms were manufactured with serial numbers going back to the 1800's.
 
Messages
4,262
Location
Port Orange, Florida
I have to say I am bit skeptical of weather they really do have a gun registry even though they insist they do not since when we have a mass shooting the history of the gun ,where it came from etc. Seem to come pretty fast even when it passes through several sellers. Florida is easy state to purchase guns second hand in without transfers from private sellers.
 
Messages
4,162
Location
Texas
Originally Posted by George Bynum
Originally Posted by wdn
If you have anything with defaced serial numbers it will be confiscated and is a federal offense. You can manufacture a rifle yourself that has no serial number but you cannot grind nor possess a ground off serial number.
I don't know when manufacturers were required to serialize their firearms, and what particular requirements might have been. I have a rimfire, Remington 552, made in ABOUT 1963, without one. I have a Remington 1100, made about 1965, with one.
I have a single barrel Stevens 12 gauge bought used , as a teenager , in the 1960's . Do not know when it was made . Can not ever rember seeing a serial # on it .
 
Originally Posted by dnewton3
To stay on point of the thread, and not go all "P", there are a few things one needs to understand. The "NFA" is the National Firearms Act of 1934. It was a response to the wild-west like shootings that were becoming common place in Chicago with gangster mobs (generally accepted mantra). All newly made weapons that were capable of full auto, some AOWs, etc were covered. Also, many weapons that were previously unregistered had to be registered as well. All this with a $200 federal tax stamp for each. This included fully-auto, select-auto, and such. Also SOTs, etc. If you had an unregistered weapon that qualified, it was required to be registered. Then that info was often turned over to States, and state laws made some folks become convicted. The "GCA" is the Gun Control Act of 1968, addressed a loop-hole which caused a violation of the 5th Amendment in regard to registration "requirements". Modified some other attributes. Details can be read further. The "FOPA" is the Firearms Owner Protection Act is from 1986. It refined the concept of suppressors, and this is the point where some NFA items were no longer able to be made for public consumption. (Transfer is still legal to this day, but items capable of full-auto are no longer allowed to be made for individual purchase. Suppressors can and are still made.) Admittedly, this is not all encompassing, but it's a good place to start: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act So, as to the question of the OPs origin, as well as what lingers over from the other thread that was locked (about the old man who was sentenced to federal prison recently), here's what you need to know .... You cannot register NFA items which were previously unregistered items to yourself now; have not been able to do that for a long time. And, the government cannot require you to register an illegal weapon; it's a violation of the 5A. However, that DOES NOT IN ANY MANNER alleviate, protect or shield you from the laws of unlawful possession of an unregistered NFA controlled item. The old man was caught with an unregistered, non-serialized NFA item; that's a big no-no. If one has "found" such an item, the best thing one can do is first to contact a good State/Federal firearms attorney, then follow his/her advice. What I would say to the lawyer is very short and brief. "I have discovered this item which I believe is illegal for me to possess. I don't want it. What manner of disposal do you recommend?" Keep on target (get the pun!?!) and the thread will be allowed to continue. Go all political and it will be shut down. Behave thy selves.
Very good points, but I will have to add one thing on a "found" gun. If it was found in deceased family members belongings, the local ATF office (Seattle of all places) has told people to turn them in and if they were on the registry, so are transferable, to have a local SOT transfer them out of state (because WA banned machine guns in 1995) and as the agent told me, "get some money for it." Previously they would tell the person to tuen them into the ATF for destruction. I think this was around 2009 when I spoke to them.
 
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