Question about Ford's 4.0L V6

ToyotaNSaturn · May 21, 2005

Years ago, Ford made a 2.8L V6 that was German made then increased to a 2.9L. This was available in their Ranger and Merkur Scorpio domestically in the late 80's and early 90's. Then sometime later it was enlarged to a 4.0L engine.

Is the current 4.0L that's available in the Ranger/Explorer the same one, or a direct derivative, of this older V6 German design??

Whimsey · May 21, 2005

The 4.0L SOHC in the Explorers and Rangers is still made in Germany as the OHV one's were. But it's totally different now.

Whimsey

Gary Allan · May 22, 2005

Do you mean to say that they took the 70's Capri V6 (2.8) and turned it into the POS, head cracking, 2.9?? ..then they upped it to the 4.0 version ..only to ditch it a little later? (I knew about the 4.0 being a bigger 2.9).

TallPaul · May 22, 2005

Also interesting that, while they had this 4.0 V6, when it came time to V6 the F150 (1997 I belive) they put a 4.2 L V6 and I am not sure what that engine relates to.

Anyway, hearing the above, I am glad the wife's Aerostar has the different and wonderful 3.0 Vulcan pushrod V6.

MNgopher · May 22, 2005

The 4.2l V6 that arrived in the '97 model year F150's is derived from the 3.8l Ford V6. Yes, the one that puked head gaskets...

Jimbo · May 23, 2005

When you count the not yet mentioned Duratec, Ford has four V-6 engine familes in the North American market! The 4.0 is due to be dropped when the 3.5 version of the Duratec arrives in a couple of years. The one advantage of the 4.0 is the fact that it is the only 60 degree V, which is inherently balanced. The others are 90 degree, which is unbalanced.

TallPaul · May 23, 2005

What degree is the Vulcan 3.0, anybody know?

brianl703 · May 23, 2005

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=13624

Duratec engines include:

2.5-liter, 60-degree overhead-cam, with four valves per cylinder, producing 170 hp and 165 ft-lb torque.
3.0-liter, 60-degree overhead-cam, with four valves per cylinder, producing 200 hp and 200 ft.-lb. of torque.
Vulcan engines include:

3.0-liter 60-degree overhead-valve, with hydraulic lifters and two valves per cylinder, producing 155 hp and 186 ft-lb of torque.
3.8-liter 90-degree overhead-valve, with hydraulic roller tappets and two valves per cylinder, producing 193 hp and 225 ft-lb of torque.

TallPaul · May 23, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
Vulcan engines include:

3.0-liter 60-degree overhead-valve, with hydraulic lifters and two valves per cylinder, producing 155 hp and 186 ft-lb of torque.
3.8-liter 90-degree overhead-valve, with hydraulic roller tappets and two valves per cylinder, producing 193 hp and 225 ft-lb of torque.

Interesting, but how can the 3.8 with 90 degrees be the same family as the 3.0 with 60 degrees? Besides that, the 3.8 was the head gasket blower, as my mother's '95 3.8 Cougar did at 100,000 miles, though otherwise it was a very peppy engine.

I had the head gasket thing explained to me that it was a combo of aluminum head on iron block with not enough head mounting studs so it allowed the aluminum to separate the seal because of differential expansion/contraction in the under bolted situation.

The 3.0 AFAIK is iron headded.

TallPaul · May 23, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by MNgopher:
The 4.2l V6 that arrived in the '97 model year F150's is derived from the 3.8l Ford V6. Yes, the one that puked head gaskets...

I'll never give up my beastly Ford 4.9 L (ahem, that is 300 cubic inch), pushrod inline six.

TallPaul · May 23, 2005

Over at the Ford Trucks site they have Ford engine forums. Typically they group them by family. Here are their groups for V6s:

3.8, 4.2

2.6, 2.8, 2.9, 4.0, SOHC 4.0

3.0

So it appears to me that the Vulcan is a lone engine family. And it appears the 4.0 goes all the way back to a 2.6. But is the SOHC really in the same family as the pushrod 4.0?

Gary Allan · May 23, 2005

Isn't the SOHC 4.0 just a modular derivitive??

Gary Allan · May 23, 2005

My assumption is two fold. The modulars are all OHC. They are, almost exclusively, the only ones to use (ever) anything but the 3/4-16 thread for the oil filter. Sure this is a weak link to form an assumption ..but it falls into the commonality of the modular format ( I kicked duratech out of the mix as I term it of asian design)

brianl703 · May 24, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
( I kicked duratech out of the mix as I term it of asian design)

It's not...Yamaha designed some engines for Ford (for the Taurus SHO) but the Duratec was designed by Porsche and Cosworth. Also the Duratec 2.5 and the Mazda 2.5L V6 are completely different engines. (A lot of people mistakenly think they're the same).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine#Duratec_25

All three V6 Duratecs are evolutions of the same design. It is a modern aluminum DOHC V6 with a 60° bank angle. The primary engineering input came from Porsche, who were developing a similar V6 before selling the engineering to Ford, and Cosworth, who helped with cylinder head manufacturing.

seldont · May 24, 2005

quote:

My assumption is two fold. The modulars are all OHC. They are, almost exclusively, the only ones to use (ever) anything but the 3/4-16 thread for the oil filter. Sure this is a weak link to form an assumption ..but it falls into the commonality of the modular format

This is close but not completely true as my Explorer with the 5.0 V8 uses the same FL820S as my 5.4. To my knowledge they just did this in the last 2 or 3 years of the 5.0 production. Hated to see the little 5.0 production cease.

Gary Allan · May 24, 2005

Well, it appears some of my casually absorbed Ford data is flawed. Yamaha ..I thought it was Honda = lol.

I'm thankful that my daughter's 91 has the simple and trusty Vulcan 3.0. Boring ...maybe..but I'll live without bells and whistles for simplicity and durability. Simple genetics is the key.

quote:

This is close but not completely true as my Explorer with the 5.0 V8 uses the same FL820S as my 5.4. To my knowledge they just did this in the last 2 or 3 years of the 5.0 production.

Thank you. I wasn't aware of this. I still haven't quite figured out why, over many evolutions, they decided to not only switch threads ..but to universally use just one filter for all installations. It would make the ordering cheaper ..but they could have done the same with the old 3/4-16 in the PH16 size.

TallPaul · May 24, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Isn't the SOHC 4.0 just a modular derivitive??

That would make sense, especially since they want all the modulars to be able to be run on the same line (I believe I had heard this). And if you take a 5.4 modular V8 and chop off two cylinders you get about 4.0. The bore and stroke comparison between the 4.0 V6 and 5.4 V8 would be telling.

Another thing, those V6s that are 90 degree would have splayed connecting rod journals, to get 30 degrees of separation between the two rod big ends on each crankshaft throw, whereas a 60 degree V6 would have a unified single journal per two cylinders.

Jimbo · May 25, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TallPaul:

quote:

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Isn't the SOHC 4.0 just a modular derivitive??

Click to expand...

That would make sense, especially since they want all the modulars to be able to be run on the same line (I believe I had heard this). And if you take a 5.4 modular V8 and chop off two cylinders you get about 4.0. The bore and stroke comparison between the 4.0 V6 and 5.4 V8 would be telling.

Another thing, those V6s that are 90 degree would have splayed connecting rod journals, to get 30 degrees of separation between the two rod big ends on each crankshaft throw, whereas a 60 degree V6 would have a unified single journal per two cylinders.

The modular was originally supposed to include fours and sixes, as well as the V-8 and V-10 configurations. It never happened.

The original US V-6, the 90 degree 1964 Buick, did not have offset rod journals and it shook like crazy. The idea was to make a cheaper engine, manufactured on the same line as the V-8's to power the new "intermediate" size Special/Skylark. The current GM 3800 is based on a later Buick V-8 engine family and the "even firing" offset crankshaft developed by Buick.

Question about Ford's 4.0L V6

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