Quaker State brand filters are shrinking???

[Maritime Storm]

Anyone else notice lately that the overall length of Quaker State brand filters are shorter, in cases as much as an 1.5". Most notibly the QS2, QS3660 & QS3980, they don't appear to be any larger in diameter. So here's question is the filter quality better or are they going cheap?

 

[Kruse]

I posted about this a couple of months ago and included a photo. They are getting cheap. I picked a couple up some 8As for $2.24 and I'm running them on a Dodge pickup. The QS 8A is a lot smaller than a competitors 8A also. Spend a little more and get a good filter.

 

[Maritime Storm]

I'm not currently using them, I noticed it with new stock that arrived at work.

 

[labman]

I have no experence with QS filters, but the trend in other brands is smaller and less media. Some smaller filters are crammed full of media. Purolator has joined Fram in selling big empty cans.

As I have said before, any fool with a hacksaw and a tape measure can tell how much a media a filter has. It is much harder to tell how good the media is.

There is no doubt in my mind that the smaller filter is cheaper to make. Otherwise, why change? That leaves 2 more questions. Does it still filter as well or better due to still having plenty of media or better media? Even if it is not as good, is it still better than it needs to be?

With the lack of wide spread damage from Frams, I wonder how good a filter need to be.

 

[dwendt44]

Perhaps, with the current trend to thinner oils, the filter makers feel they can get just as good of flow with less media.
5W-20, 0W-30, plus synthetic oil. All flow easily with smaller filters/less media.
But that's just my 2¢.

 

[Maritime Storm]

I don't think this is the case here, the filter numbers listed are used on vehicles using both 5w30 and 5w20, both of which are the current norm for use in our shop anyway. It's been about a year since I handed out 0W20 for an oil change.

 

[ernied]

i stated the same thing a few months ago. filters for my 03 sonata have shrunk. super tec stp and mobil 1 look likr toy filters now.but the purolater and havoline filters are still twice as big.

 

[labman]

Ye olde PF 9 my 77 LUV originally called for was 3.5'' x 3.5'', smaller than what ever was on my 71 V8 Plymouth. I don't remember what my V-6 Phoenix used. My daughter had a 90 Beretta with the Iron Duke 4. It took a PF 52, about the same height, but a smaller diameter, My 91 Grand AM with the HO Quad-4 took a PF 47, same diameter as the PF 52, but shorter. 3 different 4 cylinder, GM engines with the newest, highest stressed one getting the smallest filter. I never started cutting open filters until after the PF 1177 replaced the PF 9. It had about 300 sqins filter media, other low priced brands 200, and the last Fram PF 3950 I ever bought 87. As I cut filters open over time, the same brand of the same number tended to have less and media. The Purlator L 10193 I cut open last spring had about half the media they had before being bought out by Botch, little more than a 10 year old Fram.

So I think the trend is to less and less media. You can dig up flow rates, but they are measured with new filters. What I want is a filter still doing it job on my way home with the new filter and oil.

Yes, recommended oils have gotten thinner, and the manufacturers are pushing short OCI's. Does that mean with smaller filters, you had better follow them?

S

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Purolator has joined Fram in selling big empty cans.
Say what? That would be your opinion, as I've seen Zero visual (or otherwise) proof that Purolator is "selling big empty cans".

Purolator Classic (old PP) is now upgraded to 97% efficiency. Just finished using an old Premium Plus, cut it open, and it is far from an "empty can".

The Pure One is no "empty can"! At 99.x% efficient, it is a great filter and one of the best values out there.

Motorcraft, made by Purolator, is perhaps the best everyday priced, bang for the buck oil filter going. Yes, the 820S has recently been shortened, but if you read posts on BITOG, it sounds as though much of that decision was based on installation access issues in many models. It's been welcomed by many a DIYer and does nothing to change my opinion.

After reading on BITOG, I also know that the Puro made Powerflo which has taken the place of the AAP Total Grip is also a well made and spec'd filter. Though now for their commercial accounts, they were offered to me if I bought several, and the price is right.

I can't speak to the generic filters made by Purolator for different distributors/vendors, like QS. However, many of those are made to the specs of the intended vendor.

Having read your consistently negative comments regarding Purolator oil filters I largely ignore your thoughts on the matter. But, to lump Purolator with Fram in the construction of oil filters is absurd, IMO.

Until I see visual proof, which I haven't, that Purolator and Motorcraft branded filters are "empty cans", I'll continue to believe they are quality filters offering great value.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
Purolator has joined Fram in selling big empty cans.
Say what? That would be your opinion, as I've seen Zero visual (or otherwise) proof that Purolator is "selling big empty cans".



Fact, fact, fact. The last L 10193 I cut open had barely over 100 sqins media. The last ST 3950, about 200. The last PF 1177 I cut open was close to 300. The filter element in the L 10193 was less than half the height of the outside housing. You can either accept this or call me a liar.

Now it could be Botch has switched to a better media or even no engine really needs 300 sqins of filter media.

Never the less, the L 10193 has a lot less media than you would guess fromthe size of the can.

 

[Sayjac]

I've had no such issues with my PL 14610 or L 14610 or L 10241, or Motorcraft 802S all cut open. Also numerous posts here of cut open Pure Ones, Classic, and Motorcraft, attesting to their quality and non empty can status. I call that visual proof.

And, I think I could find a majority here attesting to Purolator satisfaction as opposed to your ludicrous comparison to Fram filters.

I'm done here, I'll just politely agree to disagree with your generalized conclusions regarding Purolator filters.

 

[Gary Allan]

There have been incidents where it was discovered that the can appeared to be a facade for the smaller media. It hasn't been shown (yet) to be an ongoing occurrence. For all we know they dialed in the wrong media set for a given can set either accidentally or on purpose due to any number of reasons. One thing I've found here is that nothing is 100% cast in stone with the first showing. Stuff changes. That's outside of the orange can of doom sucking since the day it was made. That can be considered a universal and unchanging constant.

 

[labman]

Well we will see in a couple of months when the hacksaw hits the Microguard I am running now. Yes things do change, and Purolator may no longer be the filter it once was.

Oh, you should be able to look in the center tube and see how short the media is.

 

[Ken2]

Keep in mind that what actually does the filtering are the holes (of the correct size) in the filter media, not the square inches of media between the holes.

Without more information we do not know if the media is different with the filtering holes closer together. I know of no case where an oil filter assembly has been full of debris except in the case of major engine problems, never due to normal service.

 

[Nick R]

NEVER EVER USE QS FILTERS.these are rebranded FRAM Extraguards, one of the worst oil filters out there. =P

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
NEVER EVER USE QS FILTERS.these are rebranded FRAM Extraguards, one of the worst oil filters out there. =P


The latest Quaker State oil filters are made by Purolator, although I would not compare them to a Purolator oil filter. I have one coming in for an oil change within a few weeks (an 8A) and I'll cut it open and post pix.

 

[Carzzz]

i visually compared two QS14610 (latest one and the older/longer one). I notice the media is different and the media is tighter pack together on the lastest one! So it may not be a bad thing even they shrink the filter length!

 

[labman]

OK, I cut open another Purolator L10193 that I had laying around. It wasn't as bad as the last, 1.75'' wide by 75'' long for 131 sqins. Unlike the last one, this one had the traditional string around the media. I also dug up my old data. It included a Purolator from a year ago short on media.

I don't think there is any question oil filters are getting smaller and have less media in them now. I would be very surprised if other brands haven't continued the shrinkage they showed earlier. It is hard to say whether this is cheapening the product or compensated by better media. Besides area and pores per unit area, thickness is important too. The thicker the media, the more little pockets part way through for something to get stuck in without blocking the pore. There have been some nice enlarged pictures of media posted recently. Yes, synthetic media looks like it has more pores, but I am not sure twice as much.

Brand-----P/N----Length width area Fits---endcaps---mfg--valves
Older data, 2000 ?
AC Delco--PF9-------102 2 1/2 255 77 LUV
STP-------S02856A---108 1 3/4 189 ''
Purolator L10193----105 1 3/4 184 ''
Power Flo SL14619----76 2 3/8 180 ''
Hastings--LF143------71 2 1/2 178 ''
ST--------ST3950-----98 1 3/4 171 ''
Fram------PH 3950----48-1 3/4--84 ''
2003 filters
Miata-----B6Y214302--69 1 3/4 121 1991 Roadster
AC Delco--PF2244G*---46 3-----138 02 Cavalier--------France
STP-------9018-------57 2 1/2 143 ''-----------------Korea
Purolator L15436-----52 2 1/2 130 ''-----------------Thailand
WIX 57082 Never got around to measuring it.

22 Aug 03 filters were a year or 2 old

ST--------ST3950-----84 1 3/4 147 77 LUV--------metal---------ADBV bypass
Purolator L10193**---76-----2 152 ''-------------card USA '' ''
Purolator L10193-----96-----2 192***''----------metal India '' far end
AC--------PF1177-----92 2 1/2 230 ''-------------card Canada ''
AC--------PF 47------56-----2 112 92 GrandAm----metal ''
AC--------PF 52------53 3 3/4 198 '' OS---------''----''
ST--------ST 3387A---46-----2--92 '' ''----------------USA ''
ST****----ST3950-----90---2.1 189 77 LUV--------Metal--------ADBV, bypass
ST 6-05---clicker '' 90 1 3/4 157 ''------------------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
Purolator 9-08 L10193 64 1.75 112 ''--------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
Purolator L10193--75 1 3/4 131 ''-------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''

*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case
*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case

 

[Maritime Storm]

The newer vehicles are using smaller filters, this I understand. Although in Toyota's case the filter they call for has actually gotten bigger over the years. However what I'm referring to a manufacturer taking filter#A and making it an 1"-1.5" shorter than they previously made them. The older filter #'s are getting shorter.