PYB SM/5W-20 6228mi Honda Accord 2.4L

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k24a4

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Hi guys. First of all, thanks to all of you who share your knowledge on this site. I find it a great resource of information. This is my first UOA, done for an '04 Honda Accord 2.4L 4-cyl with 5-manual transmission. I've owned it since new. 36 miles on the odo when I purchased it. The oil, PYB SM 5W-20 with a purolator pureone filter, was in service from 4/6/11 through 8/1/11 for a total of 6228 miles. I added 1 can of Lubro-moly MOS2 at the start of the OCI. Miles were about a 60/40 split hwy to city, with longer hwy trips (300 miles +) thrown in along the way. I never warm the car by letting it idle but I'm easy on it for the first several miles until it is up to temp. I'll get on it in third gear for hwy on ramps but otherwise am pretty conservative. Hwy cruises are between 70-75mph. Not only is this my first UOA, but it is my first run of conventional oil. The first 40,000 miles were with Kendall GT1 semi-syn 5w-20 and a generic filter at a tire shop @ 5000mi oci. I started doing my own changes after that with pp 5w-20 and either a p1 filter or oem filter. I have to say that the most surprising thing to me about this report was the high tbn of 4.7 after 6228 miles. No top offs. The silicon was higher than the average and I changed out my air filter after this drain. The air filter had ~ 18,000 miles on it. My current fill is Motorcraft 5w-20 semi-syn with a pureone filter. I plan on keeping it in for the Winter (Northeast) with another uoa in the spring to see if there are any changes. My original plan was to keep the car going for hopefully 200k but now I'll extend that to 250-300k. I think Honda's can do that pretty easily as long as all maintenance is current. BLACKSTONE COMMENTS: Jim: Thanks for the note about the oil additive you used. You can see it at molybdenum, and we aren't sure if that's the reason for the low wear we found or just that this engine wears well. Universal averages show typical wear levels for Honda's 2.4L after about 6,700 miles use on the oil. Your oil was run close to that level, yet almost all wear read lower. That's an excellent indication that no problems are developing. The TBN was still nice and strong at 4.7, so lots of active additive was still left. 1.0 is a low TBN reading. Nice report at 88,279 total miles.
Code:
MI/HR on Oil   		6228			
MI/HR on Unit 		88,279
Sample Date		9/21/11
Make up oil added   	0 qts


		Tested values/universal avg



Aluminum		2/3
Chromium		0/0
Iron			5/9
Copper			1/4
Lead			0/2
Tin			2/1
Molybdenum		422/77
Nickel			0/0
Manganese		0/2
Silver			0/0
Titanium		0/0
Potassium		0/2
Boron			48/52
Silicon			14/12	
Sodium			7/36
Calcium		        2574/2324
Magnesium		9/34
Phosphorus		774/678
Zinc			856/815
Barium			0/0

				
			tested	/values should
			values	/be


SUS Visc @ 210F	        51.6/46-59
cSt Visc @ 100C	        7.75/6.0-10.2
Flashpoint  		410/>355
Fuel %			<0.5/<2.0
Antifreeze %		0.0/0.0
Water %		        0.0/<0.1
Insolubles %		0.2/<0.6
TBN			4.7
 
I didn't add it to the motorcraft initially, which now has about 2400 miles on it, but I think I may add 1/2 a can soon. BTW the p1 filter I used for the pyb looked fine, no clogging of the media as far as I could tell.
 
Thanks for the report. I am curious about two things. 1) Why did you add the moly? Were you just trying to give the PYB a shot in the arm, or did you have a goal with it? 2) Did you notice any different operation or noise from the engine during this run? Any louder or quieter, etc? I'm wondering about cold-weather noise with this engine...they seem to be a little noisy when cold and I'm wondering if the different oil or additive made a difference there? Thanks again.
 
Jason, I did add the Mos2 to see if it would quiet down the engine, which, in very cold weather would make a "clacking" sound until the block was warm. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...517#Post2101517 The Mos2 did mute it, to my ears, but did not eliminate it completely. I plan to continue use of the moly. I have it in the Miata now with pyb 5w-30 and will do a uoa in Nov/Dec. The Miata had no noise issues and it seems smoother with the moly. This is subjective, of course, but no harm is being done according to the uoa. The uoa on the accord was to see if the "clacking" led to increased wear metals, but it does not seem I have to worry.
 
That PYB is SN listed, the SM had less Moly. Pennzoil went to moly with the SN. Almost in opposite direction than most SN dino. smile
 
I was under the impression that Lubro Moly had no Moly????+ I suppose I am wrong. Great UOA. I doubt that you need the Lubro Moly.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
I was under the impression that Lubro Moly had no Moly????+ I suppose I am wrong. Great UOA. I doubt that you need the Lubro Moly.
Maybe what you're thinking is the LM motor oil the one has no moly. He is adding LM MoS2 additive with about 4300ppm of moly (according to VOA posted somewhere in BITOG here).
 
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So, a based on capacity size, the ppm from adding any where from about 1/2 a can will increase 100-200 if using a full can of MoS2, not bad if your oil started with low or no moly to begin with, also the form 'could' plate during extended highway runs or service(not a good option for short tripping, IMO). If most trips are longer than 10 miles, at least, I'd say it's worth it to 'try'. At less than $5 for a can, it's hard to argue the value of boosting moly any meaningful amount. Sure, it's not the super-duper amounts but it's effective if it can raise it 100 ppm at least.
 
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Any difference In oil pressure and mpg with the MOS2?
Hard to say with the mpg. My average over the interval with pyb was 31.86 mpg. Over the winter w/o mos2 it was 30.24, but operating and driving conditions were different. I don't have an oil pressure guage in the Accord.
 
With this setup, I'd just change the filter at 7,500. Top-off the oil and go to over 10,000 and then re-test. That could make 12,000 or so for your app I'd say, not bad using a conventional oil! thumbsup
 
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IMO....The PYB, SM oils bottled in the last quarter of 2010 were the newly formulated SN, PYB oils. The containers in Gallon and quart sizes all said that they "Exceeded the API-SM and ILSAC GF-4" requirements but Pennzoil was already using SN, GF-5 oils prior that time. IMO....they still had quite an inventory of the older Gallon jugs and used the older jugs to bottle the oil for AA, AZ, Kmart etc....that still sold Gallon containers in retail stores. So.....IMO....in all likelihood, if the PYB was bottled in the last quarter of 2010 it is most likely API-SN and GF-5....so their is a good chance that this oil is API-SN.
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
That PYB is SN listed, the SM had less Moly. Pennzoil went to moly with the SN. Almost in opposite direction than most SN dino. smile
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mongo161
IMO....The PYB, SM oils bottled in the last quarter of 2010 were the newly formulated SN, PYB oils. The containers in Gallon and quart sizes all said that they "Exceeded the API-SM and ILSAC GF-4" requirements but Pennzoil was already using SN, GF-5 oils prior that time. IMO....they still had quite an inventory of the older Gallon jugs and used the older jugs to bottle the oil for AA, AZ, Kmart etc....that still sold Gallon containers in retail stores. So.....IMO....in all likelihood, if the PYB was bottled in the last quarter of 2010 it is most likely API-SN and GF-5....so their is a good chance that this oil is API-SN.
Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
That PYB is SN listed, the SM had less Moly. Pennzoil went to moly with the SN. Almost in opposite direction than most SN dino. smile
For what it's worth the date on the bottle was 14 Sept 2010.
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
With this setup, I'd just change the filter at 7,500. Top-off the oil and go to over 10,000 and then re-test. That could make 12,000 or so for your app I'd say, not bad using a conventional oil! thumbsup
Frankly, I don't have the balls. frown But I'll compromise and go to 7-7500 on the next change. laugh
 
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
So, a based on capacity size, the ppm from adding any where from about 1/2 a can will increase 100-200 if using a full can of MoS2, not bad if your oil started with low or no moly to begin with. At less than $5 for a can, it's hard to argue the value of boosting moly any meaningful amount. Sure, it's not the super-duper amounts but it's effective if it can raise it 100 ppm at least.
Or simply substitute a quart of Toyota 0W-20 or one of the Idemitsu made 0W-20's and get a similar 150 - 200 ppm moly boost with the preferred organic variety. Plus improve the base oil chemistry and increase the VI about 15 points.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
So, a based on capacity size, the ppm from adding any where from about 1/2 a can will increase 100-200 if using a full can of MoS2, not bad if your oil started with low or no moly to begin with. At less than $5 for a can, it's hard to argue the value of boosting moly any meaningful amount. Sure, it's not the super-duper amounts but it's effective if it can raise it 100 ppm at least.
Or simply substitute a quart of Toyota 0W-20 or one of the Idemitsu made 0W-20's and get a similar 150 - 200 ppm moly boost with the preferred organic variety. Plus improve the base oil chemistry and increase the VI about 15 points.
Ah, nice alternative. I like it! thumbsup
 
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