Pure Naphtha as an Additive

[KLowD9x]

Where I work, we get brake parts cleaner in 55 gallon drums. All of the labels have been removed, however, this seems to be a similar product.

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache...pdf&hl=en&gl=us

I know that a few engine cleaners use naphtha as a solvent to break down deposits in the engine, but what would you think about using this as a quick flush before doing a service? It blends with oil really well and doesn't seem to reduce the lubricity of the oil when rubbed between my fingers.

It also does a really good job of breaking down hard carbon on engine parts that are being cleaned before reassembly.

 

[Quest]

As a regular Naphtha user (I'm also a Coleman collector), I can tell you that adding Naphtha into oil as a quick flush is as stoopid as adding other stoddard solvents (which I won't bother to name them here, do a search to find out yourself) will not get your engine any cleaner (run AutoRx or Seafoam or bust), period.

I'd normally run ammonia-based combustion chamber cleaner to clean out varnish inside Coleman lantern founts in order to restore them. severely sludged founts call for POR-15's marine clean instead. Naphtha (or white gas, Coleman fuel, whatever you like to call it) does not possess the kind of solvency that you would like for cleaning carbon/sludge, period.

(*note: we run our appliances regularly in naphtha and it never clean up old varnish inside the founts, go figure*)

Bottomline: experiment it anyway you want but I wouldn't waste time on it (been restoring Coleman lanterns and stoves for years and Naphtha is never known to us restorers a a potent carbon cleaner, even in Coleman appliances).

Q.

 

[KLowD9x]

I read that Seafoam has these as ingredients:

"Its MSDS lists the following as ingredients:

1 PALE OIL 4229 40-60%
2 NAPHTHA 20 25-35%
3 IPA 125 10-20%"

I have also heard that seafoam is hard on seals. Is this true?

 

[Steve S]

Yeah, Naptha is white gas.

 

[Quest]

Here's an analogy for you bud:

Just because liquid laundry detergent such as Tide, etc. comes with over 75% water within (+ surfectants, etc.) doesn't immediately imply that water itself can perform the same task of getting your soiled laundry clean (it's the "surfectants" that takes care of the dirt for you).

So now, would you care to wash your laundry with water alone, or tide?

Q.

 

[KLowD9x]

I prefer OxyClean (Rip Billy Mays).

 

[72customdeluxe]

yes, but I think that's just the alcohol that makes it bad for seals

 

[Quest]

Oh and one more thing to share:

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is meant for health/medical and Hazmat operators as to how to treat a patient when they get into trouble, legally speaking. Company does not bear the obligation to reveal to the general public as to what's the "real" deal within (that gets the job done).

So, copycats and backyard-chemists take notice:

-Good luck trying to reverse-engineer a product based on the published MSDS sheet released by the original product manufacturer for we can assure you that over 99% of the time you can't figure it out(and then try to duplicate it and hope to get the same outcome as the original product)

Q.

 

[Shup1]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Oh and one more thing to share:

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) is meant for health/medical and Hazmat operators as to how to treat a patient when they get into trouble, legally speaking. Company does not bear the obligation to reveal to the general public as to what's the "real" deal within (that gets the job done).

So, copycats and backyard-chemists take notice:

-Good luck trying to reverse-engineer a product based on the published MSDS sheet released by the original product manufacturer for we can assure you that over 99% of the time you can't figure it out(and then try to duplicate it and hope to get the same outcome as the original product)

Q.


Not true, a MSDS sheet MUST list the CAS number of all ingrediants inside of product, IF they are proprieitary it will be listed and the CAS # is for a generic (i.e. ethylene glycol butyl ether = cell EB, BC or glyco BC the CAS# can cover numerous versions of the solvent and every mfg can be slightly differant in mfg / quality, distillation , feed stocksect) ..although the only true way without the formula is the good old GC or the actual formula

 

[GMorg]

Not quite the case Shup1.

The following site may help. An MSDS only has to list hazards and then only if they are above 1% of the total (0.1% if a carcinogen).

http://www.ehso.com/msds_regulations.php

 

[Gary Allan]

Even if you know the ingredients, there's no telling the processed used to formulate it.

We had a brilliant dye chemist that went to BASF. He held quite a few patents. Dye processes can mean stirring something for 2 or 3 days heated. Then add something else and then chill it. Spin that for 2hours and add something else. The process sheets were 20 pages thick sometimes.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Not quite the case Shup1.

The following site may help. An MSDS only has to list hazards and then only if they are above 1% of the total (0.1% if a carcinogen).

http://www.ehso.com/msds_regulations.php


Exactly. And if some of the ingredients are proprietary, they may only refer to internal code numbers.

Quote:
It blends with oil really well and doesn't seem to reduce the lubricity of the oil when rubbed between my fingers.


It does reduce lubricity and is only used in other mixes as a carrier or short term volatile solvent.

 

[Quest]

That has been my understanding exactly so far (thx Mola for chiming in).

Q.

 

[KLowD9x]

Well, looks like I was wrong about the supplier.

We received a few more barrels of the stuff today with the labels still attached. The liquid is Hexane, not naphtha.

How does hexane do as an addative?

I know it will clean the carbon off of a throttle body like it's not even there.

 

[jmac]

I think Hexane (C6H14) is on the down slope of the Bell curve of HC's that make up gasoline. Pure Napthalene is slightly higher in molecular weight (C10H8) and is a double benzene ring, but can also be referring to light distillate fractions that are characterized solely by their boiling points.

Quote:
The petroleum refining industry
calls the 0-100C fraction from the distillation of crude oil "light virgin
naphtha" and the 100-200C fraction " heavy virgin naphtha". The product
stream from the fluid catalytic cracker is often split into three fractions,
160-200C "heavy FCC naphtha".

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/sci/chem-faq/part6/section-1.html

In general the lighter the HC the more reactive and therefore more of a solvent.

 

[jmac]

Also noticed this in same link as above re: hexane, just above the naptha section:

Quote:

27.4 What is petroleum ether?.

Petroleum ether ( aka petroleum spirits ) is a narrow alkane hydrocarbon
distillate fraction from crude oil. The names "ether" and "spirit" refer
to the very volatile nature of the solvent, and petroleum ether does not
have the ether ( Cx-O-Cy ) linkage, but solely consists of hydrocarbons.
Petroleum ethers are defined by their boiling range, and that is typically
20C. Typical fractions are 20-40C, 40-60C, 60-80C, 80-100C, 100-120C etc.
up to 200C. There are specially refined grades that have any aromatic
hydrocarbons removed, and there are specially named grades, eg pentane
fraction (30-40C), hexane fraction (60-80C, 67-70C). It is important to
note that most "hexane" fractions are mixtures of hydrocarbons, and pure
normal hexane is usually described as "n-hexane".