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PT1

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Originally Posted By: bretfraz
I agree with the man in the video, the QC of GM trucks is superb and their assembly quality is first rate. If there is one thing GM kicks butt at, its building trucks.
Useless marketing HYPE...the last 2 GM trucks I bought (2002 Suburban LT and 2006 YukonXL Denali) were both lemons with piston slapper engines. The Denali was the worst. GM didn't help repairing them under warranty much either. It was a fight at every claim. Both were back at the dealer the day after I bought them for repairs. All the GM die hards don't like hearing this but it is true. GM quality is in the toilet.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: Amkeer
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Kind of like the rotted out frames on the Toyotas. maybe Toy should disinfect and kill the iron worms before they sell them.
Who made the frames? Or better yet what steel does not corrode when in contact with salt? What would be the best solution to prevent corrosion?
The same company that makes the frames for Ford, who doesn't have the issue. They are made to spec. Toyota spec'd wrong. It happens.
 

GMBoy

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Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: bretfraz
I agree with the man in the video, the QC of GM trucks is superb and their assembly quality is first rate. If there is one thing GM kicks butt at, its building trucks.
Useless marketing HYPE...the last 2 GM trucks I bought (2002 Suburban LT and 2006 YukonXL Denali) were both lemons with piston slapper engines. The Denali was the worst. GM didn't help repairing them under warranty much either. It was a fight at every claim. Both were back at the dealer the day after I bought them for repairs. All the GM die hards don't like hearing this but it is true. GM quality is in the toilet.
Your trucks were built in Janesville - now closed.
 

GMBoy

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Amkeer
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Kind of like the rotted out frames on the Toyotas. maybe Toy should disinfect and kill the iron worms before they sell them.
Who made the frames? Or better yet what steel does not corrode when in contact with salt? What would be the best solution to prevent corrosion?
The same company that makes the frames for Ford, who doesn't have the issue. They are made to spec. Toyota spec'd wrong. It happens.
Absolutely. Great point. The suppliers build to the OEM spec.
 

GMBoy

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Originally Posted By: benjamming
Suppliers don't always build to spec. Sometimes they are caught by OEM QC, sometimes they aren't.
True, too.
 

GMBoy

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Originally Posted By: Drew2000
It's cute the way the paint robot opens up the door to paint the inside of the door frames.
Yay!!! Back on topic! Thanks Dreww2000!
 
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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Amkeer
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Kind of like the rotted out frames on the Toyotas. maybe Toy should disinfect and kill the iron worms before they sell them.
Who made the frames? Or better yet what steel does not corrode when in contact with salt? What would be the best solution to prevent corrosion?
The same company that makes the frames for Ford, who doesn't have the issue. They are made to spec. Toyota spec'd wrong. It happens.
So your telling me that Ford does not have rust on the frames when exposed to salt? So how did Toyota specify the frame manufacturer make a frame that will rust? The specs could have been correct and the manufacturer may have improperly applied the coatings for the frame. Many variables at work. Toyota has agreed to fix the problem or buy the vehicle back. Many were purchased back above book value for the inconvenience. So as mentioned, we need to all do the best that we can. Mistakes cost.
 
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Originally Posted By: PT1
If there is one thing GM kicks butt at, its building trucks.
lemons with piston slapper engines.[/quote] As a fleet owner of many GM products I would like to address the piston slap issue. Other than a little noise it does absolutely NOTHING harmful. We own a 6.0 Savana 3500 that has some of the worst I've ever heard and it now has almost 400,000 miles on it. Burns no oil and no leaks. Never even a water pump! Still slaps like crazy cold or hot when first started. In my experience across various platforms, GM builds a GREAT truck for a business to build on. We've only had one with issues, an obvious lemon. We quickly traded it and moved on. I will say their dealers suck, but I think all dealers do!
 

PT1

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: PT1
If there is one thing GM kicks butt at, its building trucks.
lemons with piston slapper engines.
As a fleet owner of many GM products I would like to address the piston slap issue. Other than a little noise it does absolutely NOTHING harmful. We own a 6.0 Savana 3500 that has some of the worst I've ever heard and it now has almost 400,000 miles on it. Burns no oil and no leaks. Never even a water pump! Still slaps like crazy cold or hot when first started. In my experience across various platforms, GM builds a GREAT truck for a business to build on. We've only had one with issues, an obvious lemon. We quickly traded it and moved on. I will say their dealers suck, but I think all dealers do! [/quote] That's nice. But when you purchase a $55,000 truck you expect the engine to run quietly. To most people piston slap is an unacceptable condition made by poor engine design/manufacturing techniques. GM engines never had these issues until they got rid of the hand engine assembly (proper piston fitment) by skilled technicians and went to the "one size fits all" automated assembly to save money. The resulting noise and in some cases oil consumption issues experienced by consumers expecting quiet engines in luxury SUV's sold at super high profit margins went ignored by the company. The YukonXL Denali is the high end vehicle in the GMC SUV line up. Not a construction or business service vehicle. So the piston slap issue has been enough to send loyal customers running out the door. This is the effect it has. Kill off a loyal buyer with a multiple sales history. Good luck getting them back. You can deny the effect all you want but try reading the Denali forums and you will see the long lists of unhappy upper income consumers that made GM a success now driving Toyota, Lexus and others.
 

GMBoy

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My 2006 Sierra Denali Crewcab with 47k miles and the HO 6.0L is quiet and just purrs. But I have heard of the piston slap issue and would agree that the noise may be unnacceptable to some consumers even if no engine damage is happening.
 
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GM cars are worth what you can buy them for. No, a G5 or a Cobalt is not comparable to a Fit or a Civic, but you can't buy a Honda for a GM actual reatil price. The Malibu is not close to the Accord, but you can't buy an Accord for Malibu money, at least at actual retail. These are not class leading, or even class average cars, but their actual retail prices aren't either. One of the things that really hurt GM was putting sticker prices on their cars that were no more than a wet dream. Had GM priced its cars more honestly, sales might have been better over the past couple of decades. The value destroying rebates, discounts and cheap GMAC financing might have all been avoided. Nothing wrong with the cars. Plenty of happy drivers for every unhappy GM owner. If only GM had stopped pretending that its solid double cars were somehow home runs.
 

pbm

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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
GM cars are worth what you can buy them for. No, a G5 or a Cobalt is not comparable to a Fit or a Civic, but you can't buy a Honda for a GM actual reatil price. The Malibu is not close to the Accord, but you can't buy an Accord for Malibu money, at least at actual retail. These are not class leading, or even class average cars, but their actual retail prices aren't either. One of the things that really hurt GM was putting sticker prices on their cars that were no more than a wet dream. Had GM priced its cars more honestly, sales might have been better over the past couple of decades. The value destroying rebates, discounts and cheap GMAC financing might have all been avoided. Nothing wrong with the cars. Plenty of happy drivers for every unhappy GM owner. If only GM had stopped pretending that its solid double cars were somehow home runs.
I agree about the Cobalt vs. Fit/Civic but disagree regarding the Malibu vs. Accord. Many actually feel the Malibu is a better car than the Accord. Honda has hurt itself with it's poor AT's just like GM did with it's poor intake manifold gaskets. I currently own both a GM and a Honda but neither would be on my shopping list right now. I'd probably buy a Fusion.
 
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I'm not downing the Malibu, but I find it hard to believe that it is a better car than the Accord. The average Honda buyer wouldn't be caught dead in a Malibu. I won't even bother driving one prior to buying my next new Accord, probably within the next year or so. Still, for what you can buy a Malibu for, I have no doubt that it represents a solid value. For a little more than that, you get a Honda. Also, if you decide you really don't like your new Honda after all, you can always get out of it without much fiscal pain, something which can rarely be said of any GM product.
 

GMBoy

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May the Best car win. And Malibu is kicking butt. USA
 
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The average Honda buyer wouldn't be caught dead in a Malibu. I won't even bother driving one prior to buying my next new Accord, probably within the next year or so.
In this case, we can only hope you won't talk about how much better your Honda is, when you won't give even give competitors a chance. God forbid there is something better, gets better fuel economy and costs less. duh
 
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
GM cars are worth what you can buy them for. No, a G5 or a Cobalt is not comparable to a Fit or a Civic,
I agree. However, I recall reading a press release when the Cobalt was introduced in which Wagoner, or some other top GM exec boasted that this car was "better" than the Corolla and other Japanese makes. I also heard similar bravado in the early 90's when the Saturn was introduced. Also heard it in 81 when the Cavalier and J2000 "J cars" were introduced. None of these vehicles lived up to the hype. My eyes roll to the back of my head when I hear that the "new" Malibu is as good as or better than the Accord, Camry, Legacy. Altima etc. GM always seem to be in a perpetual state of introducing "the car" that is "as good as or better" than the Japanese competition. I suspect the Malibu will be relegated to fleet sales in the not so distant future.
 

pbm

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The November 2009 issue of Car & Driver has a picture of the current Board of Directors of GM. Of the 13 only 3 are 'car people'.....enough said. That's a quote (of mine) from another thread. I think that GM should have concentrated on building excellent cars (not just trucks) and the money would have followed. Poor management and the UAW have put GM in 'critical condition'.
 
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