Proper oil viscosities.
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by dave1251
What is the OP attempting to accomplish? Because the generalization and assumptions are without merit.
Who knows? Besides, some are trying to figure out who it was in a earlier life here.
Likely the one who likes to take the larger of the fairer gender on interstate rides in broken Volvo's.
Originally Posted by dave1251
What is the OP attempting to accomplish? Because the generalization and assumptions are without merit.
Who knows? Besides, some are trying to figure out who it was in a earlier life here.
Likely the one who likes to take the larger of the fairer gender on interstate rides in broken Volvo's.
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
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If the US/CAN manual allows for different viscosity, go with the thickest recommendation if you'd like. Simple.
For instance, Hyundai/Kia have had a series of recalls on their (mine) Theta II engines. From "machining debris" to "knock sensor update" which placed car in limp mode at the hint of impending failure. Although I've had great results from my 2.0T and 2.4s, these service campaigns have steered me away from the oil cap recommendation of 5w20 in any future oil changes. But my manual allows for this. The 2.0T will get HTHS of 3.5 and the 2.4 will get 5/10w30.
But i would have zero issue running 0w20 in vehicles that have shown no issues doing so.
For instance, Hyundai/Kia have had a series of recalls on their (mine) Theta II engines. From "machining debris" to "knock sensor update" which placed car in limp mode at the hint of impending failure. Although I've had great results from my 2.0T and 2.4s, these service campaigns have steered me away from the oil cap recommendation of 5w20 in any future oil changes. But my manual allows for this. The 2.0T will get HTHS of 3.5 and the 2.4 will get 5/10w30.
But i would have zero issue running 0w20 in vehicles that have shown no issues doing so.
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
Originally Posted by dave1251
3100 is considered high RPM?
He said cruising top gear at 80MPH is 3100 rpm. I understood it as "this car is geared low". He also said he drives hard, which means to me: "much greater than cruising rpm".
We are just reading it differently
3100 is considered high RPM?
He said cruising top gear at 80MPH is 3100 rpm. I understood it as "this car is geared low". He also said he drives hard, which means to me: "much greater than cruising rpm".
We are just reading it differently
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
. Being I VTECH, from 4000-7000 rpm in the twisties is a lot of fun, too bad she couldn't always be running on the higher lobes
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
. Being I VTECH, from 4000-7000 rpm in the twisties is a lot of fun, too bad she couldn't always be running on the higher lobes
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Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
. Being I VTECH, from 4000-7000 rpm in the twisties is a lot of fun, too bad she couldn't always be running on the higher lobes
Bullwinkle,what oil are you running in your Honda? My apologies if you're already mentioned it,
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by oghl
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Hit it right on the nose. It was an observation I've made. I like the heavier 40wts myself, but I drive my cars hard, fluids are changed sooner than later. My 4cyl Honda I found the same thing online. Heavier weight oils, but seemed to prefer a 0/30 over a 0/40. That k24 series engines uses a timing chain, a little heavier oil will leave more of a film behind than of a 20wt. Also that car has a 5sp manual. At 80mph rpms are at 3100, no thanks for a 20wt especially during the summer.
Logical thinking for sure. The fun factor in extracting more out of a car is well worth the penalty.
3100 is considered high RPM?
. Being I VTECH, from 4000-7000 rpm in the twisties is a lot of fun, too bad she couldn't always be running on the higher lobes
Bullwinkle,what oil are you running in your Honda? My apologies if you're already mentioned it,
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I keep reading threads about what oil to use. I highly recommend to look for the owners manual in foreign countries. My Acura MDX 3.7L in the USA says use 5/20. That same engine is used in the Honda Legend in EU. The copy of the owners manual found online did not even list a 5/20. Listed was all grades. Winter 5/30 0/30/ 0/40 5/40 10/40 or even 15/40 in extremes such as UAE. Also stated to use API SM ACEA A5 or ACEA A3/B3. My point is and most know. CAFE is what all this thin oil is about.
Here's an example. 5/20 in the MDX. Hwy. 20.2mpg
Castrol 0/40. 20.1mpg. Who cares. I'll take the better oil and the loss of 1/10th. To the government I'm wasting gas. Whatever you don't care about engine life for 500k I keep my vehicles until they're good for the bone yard.
A couple thoughts. First, written all due respect, a one-time observation of a one-tenth variation is hardly data (actually a single datum) from which you can firmly conclude that you will reliably, repeatably get that result.
Second, if your assumption, that lower vis oils provide poorer protection long-term, then where are the legions of Fords and Hondas suffering premature engine failure? The first time I saw an oil cap that said 5w-20 was when I looked over a brand new 1998 (or 99...) Honda Accord. Honda and Ford have specified 20wt oils for over twenty --20-- years now!!!. And we're just not seeing the catastrophe even start to unfold. No doubt, there are times when a higher vis is better, but there are others, such as the very common cold start where lower vis (no, I'm not ignoring the "w" part of the rating...) and prompt full flow may be the most important concern.
Which brings me to the third point: we seem to be having a tempest in a tea pot over viscosity. Way, way, WAY more important than whether to use 5w-20 or 5w-30 is CHANGING OIL BEFORE it nears the point of failure. If this is done, and assuming no unusual factors, the engine WILL last a long as you like. Probably even longer than it takes to conclude that 20 v 30 isn't all that important.......‹...Ž
I keep reading threads about what oil to use. I highly recommend to look for the owners manual in foreign countries. My Acura MDX 3.7L in the USA says use 5/20. That same engine is used in the Honda Legend in EU. The copy of the owners manual found online did not even list a 5/20. Listed was all grades. Winter 5/30 0/30/ 0/40 5/40 10/40 or even 15/40 in extremes such as UAE. Also stated to use API SM ACEA A5 or ACEA A3/B3. My point is and most know. CAFE is what all this thin oil is about.
Here's an example. 5/20 in the MDX. Hwy. 20.2mpg
Castrol 0/40. 20.1mpg. Who cares. I'll take the better oil and the loss of 1/10th. To the government I'm wasting gas. Whatever you don't care about engine life for 500k I keep my vehicles until they're good for the bone yard.
A couple thoughts. First, written all due respect, a one-time observation of a one-tenth variation is hardly data (actually a single datum) from which you can firmly conclude that you will reliably, repeatably get that result.
Second, if your assumption, that lower vis oils provide poorer protection long-term, then where are the legions of Fords and Hondas suffering premature engine failure? The first time I saw an oil cap that said 5w-20 was when I looked over a brand new 1998 (or 99...) Honda Accord. Honda and Ford have specified 20wt oils for over twenty --20-- years now!!!. And we're just not seeing the catastrophe even start to unfold. No doubt, there are times when a higher vis is better, but there are others, such as the very common cold start where lower vis (no, I'm not ignoring the "w" part of the rating...) and prompt full flow may be the most important concern.
Which brings me to the third point: we seem to be having a tempest in a tea pot over viscosity. Way, way, WAY more important than whether to use 5w-20 or 5w-30 is CHANGING OIL BEFORE it nears the point of failure. If this is done, and assuming no unusual factors, the engine WILL last a long as you like. Probably even longer than it takes to conclude that 20 v 30 isn't all that important.......‹...Ž
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
dave1251 said:
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I keep reading threads about what oil to use. I highly recommend to look for the owners manual in foreign countries. My Acura MDX 3.7L in the USA says use 5/20. That same engine is used in the Honda Legend in EU. The copy of the owners manual found online did not even list a 5/20. Listed was all grades. Winter 5/30 0/30/ 0/40 5/40 10/40 or even 15/40 in extremes such as UAE. Also stated to use API SM ACEA A5 or ACEA A3/B3. My point is and most know. CAFE is what all this thin oil is about.
Here's an example. 5/20 in the MDX. Hwy. 20.2mpg
Castrol 0/40. 20.1mpg. Who cares. I'll take the better oil and the loss of 1/10th. To the government I'm wasting gas. Whatever you don't care about engine life for 500k I keep my vehicles until they're good for the bone yard.
A couple thoughts. First, written all due respect, a one-time observation of a one-tenth variation is hardly data (actually a single datum) from which you can firmly conclude that you will reliably, repeatably get that result.
Second, if your assumption, that lower vis oils provide poorer protection long-term, then where are the legions of Fords and Hondas suffering premature engine failure? The first time I saw an oil cap that said 5w-20 was when I looked over a brand new 1998 (or 99...) Honda Accord. Honda and Ford have specified 20wt oils for over twenty --20-- years now!!!. And we're just not seeing the catastrophe even start to unfold. No doubt, there are times when a higher vis is better, but there are others, such as the very common cold start where lower vis (no, I'm not ignoring the "w" part of the rating...) and prompt full flow may be the most important concern.
Which brings me to the third point: we seem to be having a tempest in a tea pot over viscosity. Way, way, WAY more important than whether to use 5w-20 or 5w-30 is CHANGING OIL BEFORE it nears the point of failure. If this is done, and assuming no unusual factors, the engine WILL last a long as you like. Probably even longer than it takes to conclude that 20 v 30 isn't all that important.......‹...Ž
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k miles
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I keep reading threads about what oil to use. I highly recommend to look for the owners manual in foreign countries. My Acura MDX 3.7L in the USA says use 5/20. That same engine is used in the Honda Legend in EU. The copy of the owners manual found online did not even list a 5/20. Listed was all grades. Winter 5/30 0/30/ 0/40 5/40 10/40 or even 15/40 in extremes such as UAE. Also stated to use API SM ACEA A5 or ACEA A3/B3. My point is and most know. CAFE is what all this thin oil is about.
Here's an example. 5/20 in the MDX. Hwy. 20.2mpg
Castrol 0/40. 20.1mpg. Who cares. I'll take the better oil and the loss of 1/10th. To the government I'm wasting gas. Whatever you don't care about engine life for 500k I keep my vehicles until they're good for the bone yard.
A couple thoughts. First, written all due respect, a one-time observation of a one-tenth variation is hardly data (actually a single datum) from which you can firmly conclude that you will reliably, repeatably get that result.
Second, if your assumption, that lower vis oils provide poorer protection long-term, then where are the legions of Fords and Hondas suffering premature engine failure? The first time I saw an oil cap that said 5w-20 was when I looked over a brand new 1998 (or 99...) Honda Accord. Honda and Ford have specified 20wt oils for over twenty --20-- years now!!!. And we're just not seeing the catastrophe even start to unfold. No doubt, there are times when a higher vis is better, but there are others, such as the very common cold start where lower vis (no, I'm not ignoring the "w" part of the rating...) and prompt full flow may be the most important concern.
Which brings me to the third point: we seem to be having a tempest in a tea pot over viscosity. Way, way, WAY more important than whether to use 5w-20 or 5w-30 is CHANGING OIL BEFORE it nears the point of failure. If this is done, and assuming no unusual factors, the engine WILL last a long as you like. Probably even longer than it takes to conclude that 20 v 30 isn't all that important.......‹...Ž
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k miles
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k mile
No doubt about it, if the target issue is consumption, then sure, a higher vis can probably help with that.
FWIW, my 88 Civic, which I bought new and drove 150k miles until I traded it in 1998, used zero detectable oil. I used the single flavor M1 of the day, 5w-30, at 3-5k OCIs, though while back in school, 91-93, I did three changes per year, without regard for miles. Again, at the end, it used no oil, and all you could see inside was clean, bare metal. But this is just one data point.
My broader point was that "thinner" oils, are not, in and of themselves, a wear threat to engines in which they are used, particularly in those engines which call for their use. Got a different issue like consumption? Then by all means step up the vis and see if that helps. My old just-retired Prius consumed M1 0w-30 AFE, but didn't consume the 5w-30 M1 EP. Go figure. I did respond by changing back to the EP.
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k mile
No doubt about it, if the target issue is consumption, then sure, a higher vis can probably help with that.
FWIW, my 88 Civic, which I bought new and drove 150k miles until I traded it in 1998, used zero detectable oil. I used the single flavor M1 of the day, 5w-30, at 3-5k OCIs, though while back in school, 91-93, I did three changes per year, without regard for miles. Again, at the end, it used no oil, and all you could see inside was clean, bare metal. But this is just one data point.
My broader point was that "thinner" oils, are not, in and of themselves, a wear threat to engines in which they are used, particularly in those engines which call for their use. Got a different issue like consumption? Then by all means step up the vis and see if that helps. My old just-retired Prius consumed M1 0w-30 AFE, but didn't consume the 5w-30 M1 EP. Go figure. I did respond by changing back to the EP.
Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k mile
No doubt about it, if the target issue is consumption, then sure, a higher vis can probably help with that.
FWIW, my 88 Civic, which I bought new and drove 150k miles until I traded it in 1998, used zero detectable oil. I used the single flavor M1 of the day, 5w-30, at 3-5k OCIs, though while back in school, 91-93, I did three changes per year, without regard for miles. Again, at the end, it used no oil, and all you could see inside was clean, bare metal. But this is just one data point.
My broader point was that "thinner" oils, are not, in and of themselves, a wear threat to engines in which they are used, particularly in those engines which call for their use. Got a different issue like consumption? Then by all means step up the vis and see if that helps. My old just-retired Prius consumed M1 0w-30 AFE, but didn't consume the 5w-30 M1 EP. Go figure. I did respond by changing back to the EP.
The other issue is the timing chain wear. This also has been talked around here. A heavier oil will leave more of a film on the chain. Large industrial machines use an oil called red bar chain oil. It flows like gear oil, but leaves a very tacky glue like film on the chain. Honda recommends chain replacement at 400k
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
I've owned Honda's ever since I've graduated HS in 1995. Honda's are known to consume oil with age, so maybe if I follow EU recomendations mine won't consume oil for a much longer time. My Accord now with 158k, consumes a little even using Castrol 0/40. Run a 0/20, it's a qt every 4k or so. Castrol quarter of a qt at 5k mile
No doubt about it, if the target issue is consumption, then sure, a higher vis can probably help with that.
FWIW, my 88 Civic, which I bought new and drove 150k miles until I traded it in 1998, used zero detectable oil. I used the single flavor M1 of the day, 5w-30, at 3-5k OCIs, though while back in school, 91-93, I did three changes per year, without regard for miles. Again, at the end, it used no oil, and all you could see inside was clean, bare metal. But this is just one data point.
My broader point was that "thinner" oils, are not, in and of themselves, a wear threat to engines in which they are used, particularly in those engines which call for their use. Got a different issue like consumption? Then by all means step up the vis and see if that helps. My old just-retired Prius consumed M1 0w-30 AFE, but didn't consume the 5w-30 M1 EP. Go figure. I did respond by changing back to the EP.
The other issue is the timing chain wear. This also has been talked around here. A heavier oil will leave more of a film on the chain. Large industrial machines use an oil called red bar chain oil. It flows like gear oil, but leaves a very tacky glue like film on the chain. Honda recommends chain replacement at 400k
It is the not viscous of the lube which is causing the wear it is the lack of regular changes and cheap design is causing issues in a very small percentage of timing chain failures. Using tacky grease in a internal combustion engine will not help with either failure.
Originally Posted by dave1251
It is the not viscous of the lube which is causing the wear it is the lack of regular changes and cheap design is causing issues in a very small percentage of timing chain failures. Using tacky grease in a internal combustion engine will not help with either failure.
Yah. Wouldn't work in a gas engine,.
I would if I could. Maybe find some old running lawn mowers and see how long they would on gear oil, ATF, maybe some hydraulic oil. Yard sale fun. Looking for 10.00 mowers.
It is the not viscous of the lube which is causing the wear it is the lack of regular changes and cheap design is causing issues in a very small percentage of timing chain failures. Using tacky grease in a internal combustion engine will not help with either failure.
Yah. Wouldn't work in a gas engine,.
I would if I could. Maybe find some old running lawn mowers and see how long they would on gear oil, ATF, maybe some hydraulic oil. Yard sale fun. Looking for 10.00 mowers.
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