Project Porchlight

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
1 Million CFL saves 400,000 Megawatt hours

Total reduction of energy cost for PG&E for 1M CFL is 400 Giga Watt Hour (no doc, it's not giga volt) is 34.64 million dollar

From your link:
Quote:
could potentially generate a collective savings of more than 400,000 megawatt hours

I'd like to see their qualifiers.

Unless you are cooling your home, there is little if any savings from CFL bulbs:
http://suddendisruption.blogspot.com/2007/02/for-years-federal-energy-star-program.html

 

[moribundman]

Tempest, I don't have enough light bulbs to noticeably "heat" my place. Not to mention I don't need to heat my place for 8 months out of the year at all. Of course CFLs save me money, besides lowering my energy consumption.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Not to mention I don't need to heat my place for 8 months out of the year at all.

Same here, but that will vary by region. I know Canada has mandated CFL's in 2012. They will see much less real savings from CFL's.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
An International Association for Energy-Efficient Lighting (IAEEL) study conducted in Denmark, explored some carbon footprint factors, but not all, showing it took 1.8 Kwh of electricity to assemble a CFL compared to 0.11 Kwh to assemble an incandescent bulb. That means it took 16 times more energy to produce a CFL. The study did not include the fact that a CFL is much heavier and is more dangerous to handle, and will thus cost more to package, to ship, and to sell.

This research also did not calculate the energy required to safely dispose of a CFL and reclaim the mercury. The cost of removing mercury from the landfills was also not considered. More over, the potential cost in destroyed lives, illnesses, and lost human productivity due to exposure to mercury and electromagnetic radiation have not been considered.

If such a study could be done, and considered all the negative contributing factors, it would show a CFL has a massive carbon footprint, one that would dwarf a regular incandescent light bulb and it would also show that CFLs will leave behind a wake of environmental destruction.

Quote:
An incandescent bulb has a power factor of 1. Most CFLs sold in Canada have a power factor of about 0.55. That means there are about 45% more energy losses in operating the CFL compared to an incandescent bulb. This does not show up on a power bill but the power company has to supply about 45% more power than what the bulb is rated for. Astonishingly, CFLs can take almost twice as much energy to operate than what is on the label and still be listed as an energy star product, something few consumers know. CFL cheerleaders seldom tell consumers that the power factor is not included in their energy consumption calculations.

http://www.greenmuze.com/blogs/guest-bloggers/1031-the-dark-side-of-cfls.html

 

[oilyriser]

Originally Posted By: hr1940


Tony bought 12 of the new light bulbs and 10 of them lasted less than 1 year and the other 2 lasted about 18 months. I still buy the old ones because they last as long or longer than the new kind.



I've had two so far that died early, but that's out of a total of about 15. You might have just had a bad batch.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Not to mention I don't need to heat my place for 8 months out of the year at all.

Same here, but that will vary by region. I know Canada has mandated CFL's in 2012. They will see much less real savings from CFL's.


Shouldn't you be rather concerned with your own situation, since that's what's to at least a large degree under your own control?

 

[Tempest]

As of 2012, the National Light Bulb Crisis

will remove my "control" of what light bulbs I can buy. Thank goodness the government is here to save me from myself. Because we all know that if we don't get the new light bulbs, life as we know it will end.

 

[greenaccord02]

When we bought our house a little over a year ago I changed out every light, inside and out, to CFL. That's 28 lights. I've only had 2 burn out, and they were in the first couple months after installation, so I don't figure it's too bad. We've been very pleased with them. I guess you do get a dud sometimes, but we've had no problem throwing them back in the box and getting a refund. I find the Lowe's house brand to be pretty good.

I don't know if it was just a Texas thing, but I do remember there being a weekend where these bulbs were tax exempt, as were all energy-star items. We bought alot of bulbs that weekend as well as some appliances. Personally, I think that's the way government should move people toward the purchase of these kinds of items. There should be a tax free energy star weekend every year.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
As of 2012, the National Light Bulb Crisis

will remove my "control" of what light bulbs I can buy.


Better make room for an incandescent light bulb stash next to your pile of ammo.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
As of 2012, the National Light Bulb Crisis

will remove my "control" of what light bulbs I can buy. Thank goodness the government is here to save me from myself. Because we all know that if we don't get the new light bulbs, life as we know it will end.

The government is cutting the Amearican jobs (the incandescent light bulb labor force) and taking them to China. (The CFL light bulb labor force)

What else is new?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
As of 2012, the National Light Bulb Crisis

will remove my "control" of what light bulbs I can buy. Thank goodness the government is here to save me from myself. Because we all know that if we don't get the new light bulbs, life as we know it will end.

I'll see if XOM will bring out a line of SA oils to broaden your selection ..perhaps you can qualify for some exemption and drive a carb'd engine. I'll see if I can find a television set that isn't setup for remotes for you too ...and we'll even see if 8 track tapes and the pre-digital broadcast standard can be resurrected.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: hr1940


Tony bought 12 of the new light bulbs and 10 of them lasted less than 1 year and the other 2 lasted about 18 months. I still buy the old ones because they last as long or longer than the new kind.


While I don't have proof of it, I think that the quality of your utility can play a big role in how long CFL's last, Helen. We have had very few failures in our CFL's (although the newer/cheaper off brand names are hit or miss for life span). We don't have spikes or sags as a rule and very few outages.

The reason I thought of this is we did have a tree knock out a fairly decent distribution point. We had one phase ..and it was low on voltage. It played havoc with a few things.

 

[Win]

Beginning about two and a half years ago, I have lamped every possible socket in my residences and commercial properties with CFL bulbs.

Many of the bulbs run 24 / 7. Of those in commercial service, many have the luxury of commercial grade filtered, spike supressed power.

At this point at least one fourth of the CFL's have had a service life no better than ordinary incandescent bulbs. I am sure they save energy, but it is insignificant to the overall cost of electricity used. Filtering the power seems to make no difference - about one fourth fail after a few thousand hours or less.

I have 6L6's that have had much longer service lives.

I placed some (relatively) cheap LED bulbs in 24 / 7 service about eight months ago, and all of those are still operating.

CFL are junk, imo, and the sooner they are obsoleted by LED, the better off we will be.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
An International Association for Energy-Efficient Lighting (IAEEL) study conducted in Denmark, explored some carbon footprint factors, but not all, showing it took 1.8 Kwh of electricity to assemble a CFL compared to 0.11 Kwh to assemble an incandescent bulb. That means it took 16 times more energy to produce a CFL. The study did not include the fact that a CFL is much heavier and is more dangerous to handle, and will thus cost more to package, to ship, and to sell.

This research also did not calculate the energy required to safely dispose of a CFL and reclaim the mercury. The cost of removing mercury from the landfills was also not considered. More over, the potential cost in destroyed lives, illnesses, and lost human productivity due to exposure to mercury and electromagnetic radiation have not been considered.

If such a study could be done, and considered all the negative contributing factors, it would show a CFL has a massive carbon footprint, one that would dwarf a regular incandescent light bulb and it would also show that CFLs will leave behind a wake of environmental destruction.

Quote:
An incandescent bulb has a power factor of 1. Most CFLs sold in Canada have a power factor of about 0.55. That means there are about 45% more energy losses in operating the CFL compared to an incandescent bulb. This does not show up on a power bill but the power company has to supply about 45% more power than what the bulb is rated for. Astonishingly, CFLs can take almost twice as much energy to operate than what is on the label and still be listed as an energy star product, something few consumers know. CFL cheerleaders seldom tell consumers that the power factor is not included in their energy consumption calculations.

http://www.greenmuze.com/blogs/guest-bloggers/1031-the-dark-side-of-cfls.html


written by somebody who hasn't got a clue about power factors, power stations, real, and reactive power.

Great link

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
Not to mention I don't need to heat my place for 8 months out of the year at all.

Same here, but that will vary by region. I know Canada has mandated CFL's in 2012. They will see much less real savings from CFL's.


And they will be made up for by people who have to air condition an extra couple hundred watts out of their place.

 

[oilyriser]

CF bulbs do create nasty harmonics on the line, which slightly heats up the local transformers.

 

[GeaugaFletcher]

CFL's have their place, as do incandescents. Fixtures triggered by a motion sensor and fixtures turned off and on frequently do not do well with CFLs. My porchlight, left on constantly, is a great spot for one.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Tempest
As of 2012, the National Light Bulb Crisis

will remove my "control" of what light bulbs I can buy.


Better make room for an incandescent light bulb stash next to your pile of ammo.

working on it...

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
written by somebody who hasn't got a clue about power factors, power stations, real, and reactive power.

Great link

Then please do educate.