Project Porchlight

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10,611
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Las Vegas NV
 Quote:
Project Porchlight New Jersey has announced that its staff and volunteers will deliver one million free ENERGY STAR-qualified compact fluorescent light (CFL) bulbs to households across New Jersey. Project Porchlight is an award-winning energy-efficiency initiative of One Change, a not-for-profit organization, funded by the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities (BPU) and New Jersey’s Clean Energy Program (NJCEP) as part of the Green New Jersey Resource Team. CFL bulbs use about 75 percent less energy than an incandescent bulb, last up to 10 times longer, and can help residents save $30 or more in energy costs over the life of the bulb. By changing nearly a million incandescent bulbs to ENERGY STAR-qualified CFL bulbs, New Jersey residents have the potential to collectively save $11.6 million each year on their electric bills and reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 330,000 tons. The carbon reduction is the equivalent to removing 108,900 cars from the road.
http://www.thealternativepress.com/article.asp?news=4493 So they are paying taxes to pay a "volunteer" group to pass around "free" light bulbs that potentially could save people money? Notice there is no amount given for how much tax money is going for this...
 

JHZR2

Staff member
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44,828
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New Jersey
Answer me this: Who pays when demand grows and there is the need to build a new power plant? When there are grid instabilities, which cause he kWh rate for power to skyrocket? Unfortunately things show up as issues, as costs, and are borne by the end user one way or another. If my tax money is going to go to subsidizing a power plant or something else, might as well make the smart attempt to minimize use to some extent. So long as it is a handout that goes bneyond economic bounds - I hate charity as a means of redistributing wealth. I also dislike not for profit groups, as this really just means that the CEO will take the rest of the money as salary, or at least it seems. I dont care for not-for-profit executives making $250k/year "in the common good".
 
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10,597
Location
Nokesville, VA
 Originally Posted By: Kruse
Wait 'till a consumer drops one and hits them with a lawsuit for inhaling mercury vapor.
Why is this suddenly only a problem with CFLs? What about those 48" fluorescent tubes which, from what I've seen, have been standard for kitchen lighting for about the last 25 years? They'll make just as much of a mess as a CFL when you drop them, if not more.
 
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35,991
Location
ME
If only there were a (quasi)government employee who visited everyone's house, six days a week, well versed in delivering small items, that could do this work...
 
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39,806
Location
Pottstown, PA
Great idea ..but, even though a very sensible and efficient process, someone would complain that it was but another use ..abuse ..misuse.. Whiners would still whine.
 

Tempest

Thread starter
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10,611
Location
Las Vegas NV
 Quote:
When there are grid instabilities, which cause he kWh rate for power to skyrocket?
Government programs already are designed to necessarily cause power rates to skyrocket. They have admitted this. And do you really think that light bulbs are going to destabilize the power grid?
 
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Messages
16,145
Location
Silicon Valley
 Originally Posted By: Tempest
So they are paying taxes to pay a "volunteer" group to pass around "free" light bulbs that potentially could save people money? Notice there is no amount given for how much tax money is going for this...
Apparently someone who hasn't figure out the exact detail of the finance is blasting it as government waste. How much is it costing compare to running energy efficiency awareness ad, and how much is the peak electric rate the utility is paying, and how much it would reduce KWh the consumer uses, so that they can increase rate without impacting the consumer affordability/payment in the future etc, are not to be considered just because the math is not laid out in front of the accuser's eye. Government is the root of all evil, if this policy is so great why aren't the private industry doing it? Oh wait.... Notice the private industry (PG&E) in the energy sector is doing the exact same thing, but I haven't heard our great Tempest complain about it. My friend who works in the PG&E auditing commercial energy saving projects told me that it is cheaper to reduce energy use during peak hour than to buy more from 3rd party or build more power plant. I have no link to prove that my friend isn't telling me a lie, other than his paycheck, so please don't ask for a link.
 
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16,145
Location
Silicon Valley
Off peak rate PG&E buy from solar user is 8.66 cents per Kwh 1 Million CFL saves 400,000 Megawatt hours Total reduction of energy cost for PG&E for 1M CFL is 400 Giga Watt Hour (no doc, it's not giga volt) is 34.64 million dollar Ikea 11 watt CFL 3 pack for $4 in 2007 So it cost 1.33 million dollar for 1 million bulb. Total profit to the system, assume Ikea's cost (higher than 1 million CFL order directly from manufacture, and distributed by volunteer), is 34.64 million - 1.33 million = 33.33 million dollars. If there is a saving of 33.33 million in the consumer's pockets and the utility is trying to hike rate by 33.33 million, the consumer will be much less likely to complain, than when there is no saving of 33.33 million in the consumer's pockets.
 
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43,650
Location
'Stralia
 Originally Posted By: Tempest
 Quote:
When there are grid instabilities, which cause he kWh rate for power to skyrocket?
Government programs already are designed to necessarily cause power rates to skyrocket. They have admitted this. And do you really think that light bulbs are going to destabilize the power grid?
No, replacing incandescents with fluorescent drops the morning and evening peaks , improving stability...that was his point. $2,000 per KW to install new generation, assuming $5 for a fluorescent globe, saving 40W, $125 to save a KW...not to mention that the new generation needs to be fed.
 
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7,077
Location
Ontario, Canada
Porch lights are on at night. Demand is low at night. Why do refrigerator manufacturers still use heat-generating incandescent bulbs in their appliances? Same question for microwave oven makers.
 
Messages
39,806
Location
Pottstown, PA
 Quote:
Why do refrigerator manufacturers still use heat-generating incandescent bulbs in their appliances?
Cold and instantaneous performance is a challenge. More could be saved by not opening the door so often or for as long.
 Quote:
Same question for microwave oven makers.
Some compact things aren't compact enough.
 
Messages
10,597
Location
Nokesville, VA
 Originally Posted By: PandaBear
My friend who works in the PG&E auditing commercial energy saving projects told me that it is cheaper to reduce energy use during peak hour than to buy more from 3rd party or build more power plant.
That's why some utilities have implemented load management programs, often without the government even having to tell them to do it.
 
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1,243
Location
arkansas
Tony bought 12 of the new light bulbs and 10 of them lasted less than 1 year and the other 2 lasted about 18 months. I still buy the old ones because they last as long or longer than the new kind.
 
Messages
35,991
Location
ME
My bulbs last a long time as long as I don't disturb them! When I get the "bright" idea of moving one CFL to another socket, that starts the beginning of the end. Walmart sells CFLs for $3.77 a 4 pack now. (at least in my state, may be subsidized)
 
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