Product Data Sheet(s) playing "fast and loose" with approvals, recommendations, etc.?

[Ed_Flecko]

I've looked at the PDS for, just as an example, Ravenol Eco Synth EFS SAE 0W-20 oil ( https://bit.ly/3rKkJsQ ). Ravenol clearly lists "APPROVALS" (BMW LONGLIFE-17 FE+ | MB-FREIGABE 229.71 | VOLVO VCC RBS0-2AE 0W-20 - SERVICE FILL) and they list "RECOMMENDATIONS" (CHRYSLER MS-13340 | HONDA | MAZDA | SUZUKI | TOYOTA | NISSAN | OPEL/VAUXHALL (EX GM EUROPA) OV0401547 (EX
DEXOS2 GEN 2). Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 website also clearly separates "Approvals" and "Recommendations" ( https://bit.ly/3759TWC ).

However, Castrol EDGE Extended Performance 0W-20 website ( https://bit.ly/3aaDrnC ) says: "MEETS OR EXCEEDS INDUSTRY STANDARDS: API SP/SN PLUS/SN, ILSAC GF-6, ACEA A1/B1, ACEA C5, Meets Ford WSS-M2C947-B1, Meets Ford WSS-M2C962-A1, Fiat 9.55535-CR1, Fiat 9.55535-GSX, MB 229.71, GM dexos1® Gen 2*.

Similarly, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum PDS ( https://bit.ly/3rNtLFp ) says, "Specifications, Approvals, and Recommendations - ACEA A1/B1, Chrysler MS 6395, Ford WSS-M2C947-A, Exceeds the requirements of the following industry specifications: API SN PLUS, API SN-Resource Conserving and all previous categories, ILSAC GF-5

Are the Marketing Departments choosing their words *very* carefully or am I misinterpreting their verbiage?

P.S. What do you think about the Ravenol product...*I* think it looks pretty good!

Thank you,
Ed

 

[RamFan]

I'veAre the Marketing Departments choosing their words *very* carefully or am I misinterpreting their verbiage?

Always.

That being said, Ravenol is a brand I’d trust on their recommendations.

 

[Hall]

Are the Marketing Departments choosing their words *very* carefully or am I misinterpreting their verbiage?

The US has consumer laws that apply to marketing claims and/or labels/labeling. You can be certain that the wording on these labels actually went through the company's legal group. Just don't read more into what they say and don't read between the lines (or "interpret" anything).

In the context of these labels:

Approval - means those manufacturers have given their stamp of approval for the product.
Recommendation - the oil producer is making their own claim that they work for the applications. The automaker had ZERO input in this nor is the automaker saying "yes, this oil is fine".

Penzoil's labeling is clear as mud though.... That's very poorly done on their part and should be changed.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

The US has consumer laws that apply to marketing claims and/or labels/labeling. You can be certain that the wording on these labels actually went through the company's legal group. Just don't read more into what they say and don't read between the lines (or "interpret" anything).

In the context of these labels:

Approval - means those manufacturers have given their stamp of approval for the product.
Recommendation - the oil producer is making their own claim that they work for the applications. The automaker had ZERO input in this nor is the automaker saying "yes, this oil is fine".

Penzoil's labeling is clear as mud though.... That's very poorly done on their part and should be changed.

Hall,
I'm sure you're 100% correct. I'm just wondering if some of the companies are purposely trying to be ambiguous?

Ed

 

[kschachn]

Penzoil's labeling is clear as mud though.... That's very poorly done on their part and should be changed.

Castrol can be the same way. They obfuscate what are actual approvals instead of the usual other way around.

This is where easy access to manufacturer approval sheets (or websites) to verify things will help. Mercedes-Benz approvals should also be worded in a specific way.

 

[kschachn]

Hall,
I'm sure you're 100% correct. I'm just wondering if some of the companies are purposely trying to be ambiguous?

Ed

I think the ones that wish to make it look like they have approvals and licenses (but don't) are deliberately being ambiguous, yes. The ones who do have the approvals and make it unclear are being careless.

Some manufacturers and blenders though are very careful to distinguish between actual approvals and recommendations.

 

[UG_Passat]

Thank Amsoil for pioneering the "Meets or Exceeds" verbiage

 

[Hall]

I think the ones that wish to make it look like they have approvals and licenses (but don't) are deliberately being ambiguous, yes. The ones who do have the approvals and make it unclear are being careless.

Some manufacturers and blenders though are very careful to distinguish between actual approvals and recommendations.

I've seen it here and other places and many people don't understand the distinction between "Approved by", "Licensed for", "Recommended for", "Suitable for", and so on.

 

[Jetronic]

I think the ones that wish to make it look like they have approvals and licenses (but don't) are deliberately being ambiguous, yes. The ones who do have the approvals and make it unclear are being careless.

Some manufacturers and blenders though are very careful to distinguish between actual approvals and recommendations.

They might be ambiguous aswell, maybe other products in the line up don't have all the approvals and they don't want to make it obvious.

 

[madeej11]

Thank Amsoil for pioneering the "Meets or Exceeds" verbiage

If it wasn't Amsoil then it would have been someone else. They just beat everyone else to the punch.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Welcome to BS marketing 101

ambiguous ✓
obfuscate ✓
clear as mud ✓


Remember the days when all complained about the 'meets or exceeds' from the boutique oil companies. Now its mainstream. Enjoy!

 

[SR5]

Approval - means those manufacturers have given their stamp of approval for the product.
Recommendation - the oil producer is making their own claim that they work for the applications. The automaker had ZERO input in this nor is the automaker saying "yes, this oil is fine".

Then you get things like ACEA which is a self approval process. ACEA don’t have labs and don’t test oil, they just set the requirements that you need to meet and you need to test for.

Which leads us back to buying a name brand you trust. Mobil, Shell/Pennzoil, Castrol, etc I trust to make a good oil that does what they claim.

 

[Hall]

Yes, "self-approval" is not uncommon. It's normal with automotive light bulbs, for example - the manufacturer approves them to meet (US) DOT standards or specs. Motorcycle helmets have something similar.

Ask Diode Dynamics about self-approving light bulbs... The US DOT checked some (randomly ??) and found them out of spec. DD had to (offer to) replace them to all customers that bought them. I presume they were fined (DD, not customers) as well. It's not worth trying to cheat unless you're a no-name, overseas "brand".

 

[wdn]

Go to Mercedes Benz web site and select 229.71

Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften

Die Mercedes-Benz Betriebsstoff-Vorschriften zeigen eine Übersicht der Anforderungen der im Fahrzeug benötigten Betriebsstoffe und der empfohlenen Produkte. Betriebsstoffe sind alle zum Betrieb eines Mercedes-Fahrzeugs / Aggregats erforderlichen Flüssigkeiten bzw. Schmiermittel z.B. Kraftstoff...

bevo.mercedes-benz.com

There you will find plainly listed:
Castrol EDGE EXTENDED PERFORMANCE 0W-20

Castrol’s claim to meet MB229.71 is supported. It’s not marketing fluff.

 

[4WD]

I like to make my own:
The Mobil 1 Truck & SUV that I bought on clearance is hereby approved for use in my Pentastar

 

[Hall]

Castrol’s claim to meet MB229.71 is supported. It’s not marketing fluff.

The MB website refers to Castrol Edge C5. If I'm not mistaken, "C5" is a variant that's not offered in the US and the Castrol info linked in the OP refers to the US-labeled products. So while Castrol can say they "meet or exceed" MB's spec, MB hasn't tested, approved, etc the US-version of Edge.

 

[sloinker]

I like to make my own:
The Mobil 1 Truck & SUV that I bought on clearance is hereby approved for use in my Pentastar

All Castrol products are recommended in the use of drilling/tapping/machining ferrous and non ferrous metals*.
*The use of Castrol Magnatec may create huge balls of metal shavings that cling to the tool and work. Please use caution!

 

[wdn]

Incorrect, there are two separate rows listed for Castrol Edge the first row is C5 and the second row is EP just exactly as I quoted it. I stand by my previous statement. It’s all there in black and white.

 

[4WD]

All Castrol products are recommended in the use of drilling/tapping/machining ferrous and non ferrous metals*.
*The use of Castrol Magnatec may create huge balls of metal shavings that cling to the tool and work. Please use caution!

Ok … I have done quite a bit of machine work so will keep that in mind (not sure for how long) …

 

[Tom NJ]

Hall,
I'm sure you're 100% correct. I'm just wondering if some of the companies are purposely trying to be ambiguous?

Ed

Marketers purposely trying to be ambiguous?? Awww, go on! That's just a conspiracy theory!