Price cut and free charging for Tesla

[edyvw]

Margin has nothing to do with a cult; it is a key business metric. It speaks to profitability.
Gross Margin measures monies put into a product as compared to return.
A company with high margin shows strong cash from operations, which allows for growth or other opportunities.

ThNk you very much on a lectur on something I have published peer reviewed articles on, but if you read anything about it you would know that that is not how long term strategy and overall profit results in. For example Boeing will lose huge sum pn Air Force 1 planes. However, there is more to it than margin on those two airplanes.

I posted that graph that disagrees with you on premise that margin per vehicle TODAY is the most important thing.

By the way, send message to cult leader and ask how did he managed to pay $44bln for company barely worth $20bln? Maybe you get insight why people who matter when it comes to investment in Tesla are thinking twice today whether he actually knows what he is doing.

 

[edyvw]

alarmguy,

I agree with everything you posted above. No doubt Tesla faces some serious headwinds in the very near future.

Some folks were able to ride the Tesla wave up and realized the crazy exponential stock gains would eventually come crashing down. I sold all my Tesla last year along with Apple and Amazon and headed to the exit.

Crazy about of media buzz around the Cybertruck and 2 years later no truck….

Are Tesla’s best days behind them as more car manufacturers really start ramping up EV production ?

Tesla Joins my Imploded Stocks, -70% from Peak: Object of Religious Veneration Turns into Automaker | Wolf Street

wolfstreet.com

Elon always needed media buzz. He needs something that keeps people part of something special. You see M3, AMG and you want to be part of that, so you go and buy 330 or C300. It is nit M or AMG, but you feel you are part of the club.
Elon needed that. Tesla needs hype. They are not in Formula1, La Mans, NASCAR, DTM, WRC etc. so you need something that keeps people imagination going on. Enter cyber truck etc. Problem is, that can keep going only for so long without actually having tangible product. Tesla hit a point where it has to offer now more to keep interest, and they peaked. They could go racing, but that requires actual time spent on development etc. and Elon doesn’t have that attention span.

 

[Dave Hess]

I thought Cybertruck production was going to start immediately at the new Austin factory cause factory in California didn’t have any more space / tooling for the Cybertruck assembly line. Big mistake not to start production of their truck with all the buzz and press coverage.

Some say Elon is like PT Barnum and a showman built up on hype.

Tesla is very innovative and does have the ‘wow’ factor that other EV don’t have. I do plan on buying a Tesla when they build a coupe with Model S Plaid power.

 

[mk378]

A company boasting they're making big profits makes it hard to write everything off at tax time. Profit per car is not something that investors would look at, it is more about profit per dollar.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

I declare JeffKeryk the winner in the debate with eddyvw. Once eddy made the Musk/Putin analogy he admitted defeat according to the Scott Adams (noted author and the creator of Dilbert) rules for debate. All other participants are still in the "fight".

Disclosure: I picked up some Tesla shares on Friday. Do I think it could go down more? Yep. Do I think it will go up to its one year high in the next 3 years? Nope. Do I think it's a good risk at current prices? Yep. Am I a good stock picker? Nope.

Individual examples cannot be extrapolated to prove a point, but I'm starting to notice a number of people that are the opposite of California liberals buying Teslas. Three close friends in my small circle. Getting back to Scott Adams, he remarked that soon you will be able to tell who the liberals are by what they drive. They will be the ones in the crappy EVs. This is meant to be a joke, but like most jokes, there is an element of truth in it.

 

[eljefino]

I'm expecting one of the big car companies (most likely Toyota) to buy Tesla once the price is low enough.

BMW.

 

[Torrid]

I don't think Tesla will want to sell. They own the market now and for good reason. It's possible though that it will be worth so much that they're ready to get out of it, but at this point I think that would be a mistake. I don't want some regular car company in there messing with it. I used to talk crap about Tesla. I drove one and I own one now. I can't explain how much I love that car. I used to say how they're a tech company that knows nothing about cars but that approach might just be what was needed at the time. It's so different and refreshing.

 

[edyvw]

I declare JeffKeryk the winner in the debate with eddyvw. Once eddy made the Musk/Putin analogy he admitted defeat according to the Scott Adams (noted author and the creator of Dilbert) rules for debate. All other participants are still in the "fight".

Disclosure: I picked up some Tesla shares on Friday. Do I think it could go down more? Yep. Do I think it will go up to its one year high in the next 3 years? Nope. Do I think it's a good risk at current prices? Yep. Am I a good stock picker? Nope.

Individual examples cannot be extrapolated to prove a point, but I'm starting to notice a number of people that are the opposite of California liberals buying Teslas. Three close friends in my small circle. Getting back to Scott Adams, he remarked that soon you will be able to tell who the liberals are by what they drive. They will be the ones in the crappy EVs. This is meant to be a joke, but like most jokes, there is an element of truth in it.

Lol. Some here talking about secret vision of whatever happens to Tesla. Stock is in free fall, yet, all that is secret plan. Just giving example.

He did not address any of issues anyone raised here. I said few years back that once big companies catch up, Tesla will look just as any other company, but smaller. VW is selling pretty much same amount of EV’s on German market as Tesla, although they are in game like 2yrs.
That does not mean Tesla will go down or get acquired. But, times of hype are slowly disappearing.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

US buyers get 10,000 miles of free supercharging.
Canadian and Mexican buyers get 10,000 kilometers of free supercharging.

I've never seen a Tesla in Mexico

 

[JeffKeryk]

Had to take a break from this good conversation to attend the 49er-Commander game. Got nuthin' but love for @edyvw and @alarmguy. I just come form a long term business standpoint vs speculation.
By the way, doesn't the league know you can't stop Kittle?

 

[DwightFrye]

I'm not sure who thinks the Tesla stock freefall is anyone's "plan". But if they do I would like to see them explain their logic.

I'm also highly skeptical that other automakers will ever "catch up" to Tesla. Sure, there will be maybe a dozen EV models available from several of the major automakers but if they sell any it will be due to price, brand loyalty or hatred for Tesla. If Tesla is marketing an economy priced model any buyers who choose a different brand out of hatred for Tesla will be cutting off their nose to spite their face so to speak.

Given the current economic situation, other automakers are going to be even more hard pressed to come up with the much needed capital to invest in their EV programs. In my opinion this will set them back even further. While Tesla still has money coming out of their butt to put back into the company as they aren't spending it on maintaining an ICE line or paying for unfunded pension liabilities among other drains upon a corporation.

As I wrote earlier. let's revisit this topic next Christmas. We'll see where TSLA stock is, whether or not the Cybertruck is in production and they are filling the 1.2 million pre orders for them, whether or not they have delivery dates scheduled for the rumored Model 2,
and how much salivating Consumer Reports and Motor Trend are doing over mediocre new EV's from other makers.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I would hope that other car companies speed up their EV development and deliver quality products. Competition is good for us, the customer.
Competition will force Tesla to continue to evolve. A question I ponder is, Are the legacy companies agile enough? So far, they have delivered ICE vehicles with electric drivetrains. 2nd question is, Is that good enough?

Time will tell; interesting times ahead in this young EV industry!

 

[Greasymechtech]

A Tesla owner says his car wouldn't charge in freezing temperatures, leaving him stranded on Christmas Eve

Domenick Nati told Insider that the problem has forced him to cancel his Christmas plans as no Ubers are available where he lives in Virginia.

www.yahoo.com

 

[John105]

You mention the "envy of all other makers" that is only in the mind of a person who loves the company. From an investment standpoint an investor would ask, we do we go from here? and already the Tesla story has faded, they cant sell the amount of cars that their factories can produce. Meanwhile all the other makers are not only going to be offering their typical ICE vehicles but also EV vehicles. So which is better?
Tesla at 90 and now 40 times earnings and a whole host of legacy makers at 4 to 6 times earnings.

There were a lot of darlings like that...we would always hear the stories. One of my colleagues decided to do an analysis since I told him I sold amazon in 2001 after my investment tripled. My mom (I was young) told me don't be greedy. Ok, so the stock would have been worth 4 mil if I had held. But how would I have enjoyed the ride from 2019 to today?

We always hear people bragging I bought apple in 2009, etc.

Better to be balanced and deal with what one can afford to lose.

Facebook is another one of them for me--I got it at the IPO, and sold it for about a 30% gain. Some may say wow that's stupid. But those who do, may not remember it had gone straight down to < 50% of what it IPO'd for, so I actually felt luck to have any gain at all, at the time.

Tesla has that desirability factor to me, like Apple, and BMW. I do have Apple and BMW products, but am not loyal nor am I a fanboy. Costco? I am a fanboy and I do have the stock as well. I have zero desire for a Tesla, it is simply not a product that I would want, nor want to spend hard earned money on.

 

[alarmguy]

I'm not sure who thinks the Tesla stock freefall is anyone's "plan". But if they do I would like to see them explain their logic.

I'm also highly skeptical that other automakers will ever "catch up" to Tesla. Sure, there will be maybe a dozen EV models available from several of the major automakers but if they sell any it will be due to price, brand loyalty or hatred for Tesla. If Tesla is marketing an economy priced model any buyers who choose a different brand out of hatred for Tesla will be cutting off their nose to spite their face so to speak.

Given the current economic situation, other automakers are going to be even more hard pressed to come up with the much needed capital to invest in their EV programs. In my opinion this will set them back even further. While Tesla still has money coming out of their butt to put back into the company as they aren't spending it on maintaining an ICE line or paying for unfunded pension liabilities among other drains upon a corporation.

As I wrote earlier. let's revisit this topic next Christmas. We'll see where TSLA stock is, whether or not the Cybertruck is in production and they are filling the 1.2 million pre orders for them, whether or not they have delivery dates scheduled for the rumored Model 2,
and how much salivating Consumer Reports and Motor Trend are doing over mediocre new EV's from other makers.

So far, according to your post, Tesla stock is down 50% (think about that) from Dec 2020, down 70% ish percent from 2021.
I dont know but a lot of people who bought in 2020 and 2021 might feel differently than you.
SO let's see where the stock is in 2023 of Dec. I'll bookmark this and hopefully I remember why I did! *LOL*
If Tesla gets down to where it should be which be generous I suggest the stock price will need to come down another 50 to 70% to be around 30 or 50 in rough numbers in order to match the automobile industry, after all, its just a car.

With the above said, I have no idea and why I stay away form this company, it really is a wild card but I do know one thing for certain, they have nothing that the rest of the world doesnt have, they are one of a dozen car companies and that is all they are. It's not like, lets say Intel when they came out with a processor like pentium in the 1990s and the only ones to have it.
To me it's more like a cult, I mean how can anyone defend the stocks performance? People lost their life savings. I hear how bitcoin gets trashed and Tesla had the same trashing as bitcoin this year. I actually think bitcoin might be a better buy right now. But what do I know?

 

[John105]

So far, according to your post, Tesla stock is down 50% (think about that) from Dec 2020, down 70% ish percent from 2021.
I dont know but a lot of people who bought in 2020 and 2021 might feel differently than you.
SO let's see where the stock is in 2023 of Dec. I'll bookmark this and hopefully I remember why I did! *LOL*
If Tesla gets down to where it should be which be generous I suggest the stock price will need to come down another 50 to 70% to be around 30 or 50 in rough numbers in order to match the automobile industry, after all, its just a car.

With the above said, I have no idea and why I stay away form this company, it really is a wild card but I do know one thing for certain, they have nothing that the rest of the world doesnt have, they are one of a dozen car companies and that is all they are. It's not like, lets say Intel when they came out with a processor like pentium in the 1990s and the only ones to have it.
To me it's more like a cult, I mean how can anyone defend the stocks performance? People lost their life savings. I hear how bitcoin gets trashed and Tesla had the same trashing as bitcoin this year. I actually think bitcoin might be a better buy right now. But what do I know?

I do remember buying some stock April 2020, and in the coming months all the way to about Jan 2022, they were literal slam dunks. Lowe's was one of them.

At the time, I remember analysts saying, we didn't understand Tesla at $500, and we don't understand it either today, and we don't own it. It seems sometimes that with today's society, we are not supposed to admit we don't understand something, don't buy it as a result, and don't care all that much. It seems more macho and admirable to say I have no idea what that co does and I bought the stock cheap! lol

 

[alarmguy]

I do remember buying some stock April 2020, and in the coming months all the way to about Jan 2022, they were literal slam dunks. Lowe's was one of them.

At the time, I remember analysts saying, we didn't understand Tesla at $500, and we don't understand it either today, and we don't own it. It seems sometimes that with today's society, we are not supposed to admit we don't understand something, don't buy it as a result, and don't care all that much. It seems more macho and admirable to say I have no idea what that co does and I bought the stock cheap! lol

Yeah, I am not a fan of the media, I am only a fan of numbers.
Analysts in the media to me are nothing more than entertainment, such as news broadcasts or weather reports.
They have no idea what is going on until it happens, then spin it to make it look like they know something about it. One proven wrong, since they are in control of what is talked about, they go onto another stock and drop the one they were completely wrong on.

One must remember though (because I am unsure how to read your post) many investors are in for long term gains and there are many investors upset with Tesla right now, more so if they got margin calls and lost everything.
Then others like you, who are short term, in that case you can own or short any dog company and make a lot of money, if one has the guts, over time you can also lose a boat load. Right now, shorting Tesla has enriched the lives of countless Americans.

 

[DwightFrye]

It's pretty unfair to pick on Tesla regarding the loss in stock value this year. Millions of Americans are going to see huge losses in the values of their IRA's and 401k's this year and those are made up of a multitude of different stocks.
Although I will admit that with Tesla, they are an example of "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

I certainly am far, far, far from any expert regarding the stock market. But I do understand that there is more to valuation than just a corporation's sales, profit/loss, debt, cash flow, etc. Emotion and "gut feeling" may not seem logical but they absolutely come into play regarding valuation. And TSLA is probably one of the biggest companies in history that those intangible factors have had a major effect on. And in both value gains and value losses.

Now Bitcoin investors are the ones that need their heads examined in my opinion

For me, I am crossing my fingers and betting that Elon will once again be proven right in the long term and will sit on my TSLA holdings for at least another couple of years.

 

[alarmguy]

It's pretty unfair to pick on Tesla regarding the loss in stock value this year. Millions of Americans are going to see huge losses in the values of their IRA's and 401k's this year and those are made up of a multitude of different stocks.
Although I will admit that with Tesla, they are an example of "the bigger you are, the harder you fall".

I certainly am far, far, far from any expert regarding the stock market. But I do understand that there is more to valuation than just a corporation's sales, profit/loss, debt, cash flow, etc. Emotion and "gut feeling" may not seem logical but they absolutely come into play regarding valuation. And TSLA is probably one of the biggest companies in history that those intangible factors have had a major effect on. And in both value gains and value losses.

Now Bitcoin investors are the ones that need their heads examined in my opinion

For me, I am crossing my fingers and betting that Elon will once again be proven right in the long term and will sit on my TSLA holdings for at least another couple of years.

Not sure why the need to comment on bitcoin completely out of the realm of Tesla.
Also to to say "unfair to pick on Tesla" is awfully strange, why is it unfair to pick on one on the worst performing stocks of the entire year? Isnt that what the worst performing stocks normally do, get picked on, Tesla's loss is far worse than any other losses in values in IRAs and 401k's this year. Thank god those retirement account are diversified and not invested in Tesla we would have a Great Depression Part Two right now. Come on already a 70% loss in Tesla doesnt deserve to be "picked on" ?

Then at the same time you say people "need their heads examined" in bitcoin. Tesla as of this moment is down 71% how on earth can that be defended to bitcoin that has less of a loss?
Not sure if that is an attempt to make Tesla look good but even that would be wrong because Bitcoin outperformed Tesla for the year so far.
Investing in a car company when it was 100 times earnings to me might call for examine heads when the entire auto industry as a group has a P/E of 10 or less.
Im only saying this because numbers are numbers. Once again, Tesla is just a car brand, nothing more and other than an expensive 4 door economy car they have nothing else to offer the American public and the legacy car makers do.
Im burnt out on the subject (thank god for everyone) but then to suggest others have their heads examined while promoters of a company are holding one of th worst performing stocks of the year is odd.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Tesla down 71% is awesome. Wouldn't that make it a buy? or is there some competition that will make them seem like a has been?