Preparing Cast Iron Block for MLS head gasket and aluminum head?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jan 11, 2007
Messages
670
Location
va
I will be installing my Focus SVT aluminum head on it's Cast Iron block soon. The block has sat out for a year and there is some surface rust there. The block is still in the car and the block will not be going to a machine shop.

There seems to be some division on how to prepare the block as follows:

Option 1: Use a long block sanding board with sanding paper being sure to protect cylinder bores and pistons along with oil ports.

Option 2: Use razor blades and then brake clean

Option 3: Scotchbrite green pads

Option 4: Razor blades then fine wire wheel.

If the head gasket were composite I'd not be as concerned, but this is an MLS head gasket and no aftermarket composite HG are offered.

Thanks.
 
No scotch-brites, sandpaper or wirewheels unless you can make sure no abrasive or wires are in the engine. Scraper might be the best bet. Now, if you had the block out of the car with the crank and pistons out then use abrasives.

You don't want anything to get trapped and enter the oil - which can wipe out your main/rod/cam journals.
 
Originally Posted by dx92beater
I will be installing my Focus SVT aluminum head on it's Cast Iron block soon. The block has sat out for a year and there is some surface rust there. The block is still in the car and the block will not be going to a machine shop.

There seems to be some division on how to prepare the block as follows:

Option 1: Use a long block sanding board with sanding paper being sure to protect cylinder bores and pistons along with oil ports.

Option 2: Use razor blades and then brake clean

Option 3: Scotchbrite green pads

Option 4: Razor blades then fine wire wheel.

If the head gasket were composite I'd not be as concerned, but this is an MLS head gasket and no aftermarket composite HG are offered.

Thanks.


Was it covered or just outside? If it was not covered I would suspect you may have more problems than just surface rust on the deck. What about the bores and rings?
Picture of the rusted block?
 
Letting it get rusty then refusing to send to machine shop seems a plan to fail.
 
It was covered. I'll go with the razor blade option. The head surface had a bit of surface rust on it from before my time, so no I won't be pulling the motor for something like this.
 
Last edited:
Why not remove engine from car then put on engine stand. You could then tilt engine to clean, make sure no lower engine problem from moisture etc
Also makes it easier to install head, intake and exhaust. Pulling and installing engines is lot easier than leaning over car trying to torque everything.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Sand paper and or scotchbrite!!!!!


Never use Scotchbrite near an open assembled engine it ruins engine bearings. No oil filter made will remove the microscopic particles, they roam around infinitum in the engine damaging anything the come in contact with. I wont even use a powered disc type under the hood, sandpaper isn't much better.
The only thing I would try is white vinegar, cover the deck with newspaper soaked in the vineger and cover with a plastic bag, let sit overnight and use a small brass brush and wd40 to remove the scum left over.
 
Trav, See the sarcastic exclamation marks ? Been around too long to use either.
 
I know in the past when I've used Cometic MLS headgaskets, their RA spec was 50 or finer. You'll also want the deck and head to be acceptably flat. Really, building an engine that is the best it can be, is all in the details. Cut a bunch of corners and throw it together, and you'll end up with less than satisfactory results.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
Trav, See the sarcastic exclamation marks ? Been around too long to use either.

Sorry I didn't know what that meant.
 
Originally Posted by mattd
Green fiber roloc discs work well.


From GM but is applicable to all makes.

Quote
#87-61-24: INFO. USE OF 'SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS' - (Apr 2, 1998)


SUBJECT: INFORMATION - USE OF "SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS"


MODELS: 1998 AND PRIOR PASSENGER CARS AND TRUCKS


THE USE OF "SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS" -
WHEN CLEANING ENGINE GASKET SEALING SURFACES, AND/OR CLEANING PARTS FROM AN ENGINE WHICH ARE TO BE REUSED; SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS (TYPICALLY A WOVEN FIBER PAD DESIGN) WHICH CONTAIN ABRASIVES, SUCH AS A HIGH AMOUNT OF ALUMINUM OXIDE, ARE NOT RECOMMENDED.
THE USE OF SUCH SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS DISLODGE ALUMINUM OXIDE (FROM THE DISC) AND METAL PARTICLES, WHICH CAN LEAD TO PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE.
THE PRESENCE OF ALUMINUM OXIDE IN ENGINE OIL HAS BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE. IN SOME CASES THIS FAILURE OCCURS IN AS LITTLE AS 1,000 MILES (2,200 KM) OR LESS AFTER THE REPAIR HAS BEEN MADE.
SURFACE CONDITIONING DISCS MAY GRIND THE COMPONENT PART MATERIAL AND IMBED IT INTO THE DISC. THIS CAN RESULT WHEN MORE AGGRESSIVE GRINDING OF THE GASKET SURFACE TAKES PLACE. PROCEDURE: A NEW PRODUCT FROM 3M(R) AUTOMOTIVE AFTERMARKET DIVISION, THE ROLOC BRISTLE DISC*, IS NOW AVAILABLE WHICH ADDRESSES SOME OF THE ABOVE CONCERNS.
* WE BELIEVE THIS PRODUCT TO BE RELIABLE. THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL MANUFACTURERS OF SUCH PRODUCTS. GENERAL MOTORS DOES NOT ENDORSE, INDICATE ANY PREFERENCE FOR OR ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ITEMS WHICH MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM THIS FIRM, OR FOR ANY SUCH ITEMS WHICH MAY BE AVAILABLE FROM OTHER SOURCES.
CAUTION:

TO AVOID PERSONAL INJURY FOLLOW STANDARD SAFETY PRECAUTIONS, INCLUDING THE USE OF SAFETY GLASSES, SHOULD BE OBSERVED DURING SURFACE PREPARATION.
READ THE SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED WITH THE PRODUCT BEFORE USE.
REMOVE BY HAND, WITH A SCRAPPER (PLASTIC SCRAPPER ON ALUMINUM SURFACES), THE BULK OF MATERIAL ON THE COMPONENT SURFACE BEFORE USING THE 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISC.
NOTICE: DUE CARE MUST BE TAKEN TO AVOID THE ENTRY OF ANY MATERIAL INTO THE ENGINE BLOCK OIL AND COOLANT PASSAGES WHEN CLEANING COMPONENT SURFACES.


THE PRESENCE OF FOREIGN MATERIAL IN ENGINE OIL HAS BEEN SHOWN TO CAUSE PREMATURE ENGINE BEARING FAILURE.
COVER OR BLOCK ALL ENGINE PORTS (ENGINE OIL AND COOLANT) AND OPEN AREAS (CYLINDER BORES, LIFTER VALLEY, ETC.) TO PREVENT POSSIBLE CONTAMINATION WHEN WORKING ON THE ENGINE.
VACUUM UP ALL CONTAMINANTS (I.E. DIRT, GASKET MATERIAL, ETC.).
IMPORTANT: ENGINE COMPONENTS, CLEANED WITH 3M ROLOC BRISTLE DISC, SHOULD BE THOROUGHLY CLEANED BEFORE RE-INSTALLING THEM ON THE ENGINE BLOCK.


THE USE OF A VACUUM, SPRAY CLEANER GM P/N 12346139 OR 12377981, PARTS CLEANER, ETC. TO REMOVE ALL TRACES OF CONTAMINANT IS SUGGESTED.
THE DISCS (SEE FIGURE 1--3M(R) ROLOC DISC IDENTIFICATION) ARE AVAILABLE IN DIFFERENT GRIT LEVELS, WITH SUGGESTED APPLICATIONS AS FOLLOWS:
3M(R) PART COLOR/ SUGGESTED NUMBER** DESCRIPTION*** APPLICATION QUAN. --------- ------------- ------------ ----- WHITE 120X GRIT ALUMINUM BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC (MILD 10 07532 1" DIAMETER ABRASIVE) 07528 2" DIAMETER 07529 3" DIAMETER
YELLOW 80X GRIT ALUMINUM OR BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC CAST IRON/ 10 07531 1" DIAMETER STEEL 07525 2" DIAMETER (MEDIUM 07527 3" DIAMETER ABRASIVE)
GREEN 50X GRIT CAST IRON/ BOX OF ROLOC BRISTLE DISC STEEL (HARSH 10 07530 1" DIAMETER ABRASIVE) 07524 2" DIAMETER 07526 3" DIAMETER
*** THE ABOVE 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISCS ARE TO BE USED WITH THE CORRECT DISC PAD ASSEMBLIES LISTED BELOW.
CAUTION:

NON-3M(R) BACK-UP PAD'S MAY HAVE A DEEPER THREADED CAVITY WHICH CAUSES THE BUTTON (ON THE DISC) TO CONTINUE TO TIGHTEN DOWN DURING USE. THIS CAN CAUSE THE BUTTON TO SEPARATE FROM THE DISC RESULTING IN DISC FLY OFF AND POTENTIAL OPERATOR HARM.
3M(R) PART NUMBER** DESCRIPTION QUAN. --------- ------------------------- ------ 05538 1" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY BOX OF 05539 2" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY ONE (1) 05540 3" ROLOC DISC PAD ASSEMBLY
NOTICE: WHEN USING ANY ABRASIVE MATERIAL, PARTICULARLY ON ALUMINUM SURFACES, CARE MUST BE TAKEN TO AVOID DAMAGE TO THE SURFACE AREA. EXCESSIVE MATERIAL REMOVAL MAY RESULT IN DAMAGE TO SEALING SURFACES.


** THESE COMPONENTS CAN BE OBTAINED FROM LOCAL 3M(R) SUPPLIERS. THE BRAND NAMES "3M" AND "ROLOC" ARE TRADEMARKS OF MINNESOTA MINING AND MANUFACTURING COMPANY, ST. PAUL, MINNESOTA 55144.
PARTS INFORMATION:


PART NUMBERS DESCRIPTION ------------ ----------- 12346139, 12377981 SPRAY CLEANER
PARTS (SPRAY CLEANERS ONLY) ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.
FIGURES: 01 ATTACHMENTS: 00
FIGURE 1 - 3M(R) ROLOC BRISTLE DISC IDENTIFICATION 1 - SHAFT (TYPICAL) 2 - BACK-UP PAD 3 - ROLOC BRISTLE DISC
Figure 1
GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.
COPYRIGHT 1998. GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
 
Thanks for all of the helpful posts. The entirety of a given circumstance cannot be articulated in a 2 dimensional post. As much as I'd like to pull the engine, the shoe doesn't fit this situation. It's do or die to the best of my ability with the engine in the vehicle. If it doesn't work, not a huge deal and I can move on.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by CT8
Sand paper and or scotchbrite!!!!!


Never use Scotchbrite near an open assembled engine it ruins engine bearings. No oil filter made will remove the microscopic particles, they roam around infinitum in the engine damaging anything the come in contact with. I wont even use a powered disc type under the hood, sandpaper isn't much better.
The only thing I would try is white vinegar, cover the deck with newspaper soaked in the vineger and cover with a plastic bag, let sit overnight and use a small brass brush and wd40 to remove the scum left over.



You do mean a brass hand brush not a power tool right?
 
Originally Posted by mattd
Not the woven ones. These.

https://www.amazon.com/3M-3M-18730-...hy=9002229&hvtargid=pla-569415750614


Yes I know what you meant. Same thing applies, ceramic dust is deadly to moving parts and will not get caught by the oil and likely not by the air filter either.

Quote
Grit Material Ceramic Aluminum Oxide


Edit: You can uses these on blocks and head and other parts that have been disassembled but they must be thoroughly cleaned after including the cooling and oil passages, a tanking would be best.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top