Pre Oilers

[Ryan]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan:
I guess no more jack rabbit starts off the line for me in the LS1 anymore.

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You'll just have to give that car to me then!

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As a matter of fact I just got done putting a Spec 3 carbon clutch with upgraded hydraulics and drill mod today... now I love my car even more, so I don't think I will be giving it away

I will try to find your old Formula and buy that too

since that was the cleanest car I have ever seen back when you had it.

 

[Spector]

So, a manual transmission, in theory, should have a longer lasting engine if one revs it prior to starting in first gear!

 

[sprintman]

Patman maybe time to get one of the Aussie Pontiac GTO's? They screwed up the Monaro nose a bit but basically the same car. Have you seen one 'in the flesh' yet?

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

RYAN, if you want to do something like that, consider doing what racers do, get your Rpm's up so oil pressure it already up under a no load condition so when you do drop it, the you have a higher wedge of oil already in the bearings.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan:
I guess no more jack rabbit starts off the line for me in the LS1 anymore.

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You'll just have to give that car to me then!

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
Patman maybe time to get one of the Aussie Pontiac GTO's? They screwed up the Monaro nose a bit but basically the same car. Have you seen one 'in the flesh' yet?

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Not yet, but even if and when they do come to Canada, they will be priced out of my range unfortunately.

 

[Alex D]

Nice cars Patman !! I like the red color much better and I am never going back toa six speed either...had two, the 98 Z28 and the LT4 Vette Convertible.......I remember your green LS1 from back in 1998 when we started LS1.com.....sure was one fast sucker.....so back to my question.....how about starting an engine after it has been stored for let's say three months.......my wife's T/A just came out of hybernation and it fired right up.the oil pressure was right there within a tenth of a second...no valve clatter or anything either and the car was stored for about four months in our unheated garage.

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

Originally posted by Alex D:
[QB] Bob,
How about engines that sit for a long time...like Patman's car over winter.....I have a couple of cars too that do not see service sometimes for a month at at time.......???

Actually my LT1 Firebird is my daily driver, even in winter. But when I had my LS1 Firebird I stored it every winter. I wouldn't even drive that car in the rain!

Although if you see both cars, you'd never know the difference, both looked immaculate.

This is my current car:

This was my 98 Formula (which I never should've sold)

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[Patman]

Alex, one of the winters when I stored my 98 Formula I did not start the engine once for 4 solid months. I had Mobil 1 5w30 in the crankcase, and did not do anything special, I just fired it up in the spring and the oil pressure came right up and I heard no strange noises whatsoever. I never did have piston slap or oil burning issues with that car, just another reason I was stupid to sell it.

 

[asenna]

This post go tme thinking..

So in cold weather do you think it would make much of a difference if I pulled the fuse for the fuel injection and turned over the engine a few times? Waste of time, may do more damage, or good idea?

On really cold (-30C) days the sounds coming from most engines for the first rev or two never sounds good.

 

[Oldswagon]

quote:

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Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
I have a liiiiiiittle comment I'd like to make. IMO, I do not believe that most wear is coming from start up so much as it is in town driving. OK, why?, well, consider this, first, most don't let their engines sit longer than over nite then you're restarting the engine unlike a race car sits for weeks at a time. This is the primary reason for a pre luber in a race car.

When you start your car engine, you do not have a load on the engine as it is just in idle. Once oil pressure is up, which only takes a few seconds, then most will go.

Now, when does it wear most? During starts from a light. Why? well at idle, you have say about 28lbs of oil pressure at the rod bearings waiting on the light. When the light changes, you accelerate, during which time, your rod will stroke up and down at min 2-4times before the full oil pressure is back up to 40+, so during that time, UNDER A LOAD, you are SHEARING the 28lbs of hydrodynamic wedge between that bearing and crank, thus, you're scuffing those parts causing wear. This is why an engine running down the hwy has less wear as that engine maintains a heavy amount of oil pressure wedge on the rod bearings and not shearing the oil. It's only during acceleration from a complete stop where the engine has time to allow the pressure to drop. That's why grannie's car last longer as she lightly accelerates as opposed to the young boy that does constant jack rabbit starts.

This IMO is where you have most wear. This also is why I am working on the oil pressure drop accros oil filters as to I truley believe this is what is contributing to the wear due to oil flow.

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Bob,

sounds like a good theory to me, but I do have one question. How do you explain the longevity of most taxis? Most of our local cabs see very high levels of stop and go driving, as well as many jack rabbit starts. Yet most cabs easily see mileage of 250,000 to 300,000 miles. Often many cabs last longer than that. Perhaps the fact that these cabs are at operating temperature for most of there driving less wear occurs? Why do you think they last so long?

Having an electric oil pump would be nice to keep the oil pressure high at all times, and also to have the ability to pre-lube the engine. However, the one thing that would worry me would be failure of the pump. At least when a mechanical pump becomes worn, it shows symptoms of wear. But a electric pump could just die all of a sudden, similar to electric fuel pumps. Only, the consequences for an electric oil pump would be much worse.

 

[Shannow]

Bob,
the issue that I have with your theory is that it's not oil pressure that creates the oil wedge.

The pressure drives the flow through the galleries and into the unloaded side of the bearings, and it's the respective difference in velocities of the parts, and the geometry that creates the wedge.

If you were relying on oil pressure alone to separate the parts, the pump would be pumping thousands of PSI, and take 40 horsepower to drive.

Similarly with the electric pump on a running motor. Still requires the shaft power to drive it. If it were to obtain that electrically, the engine would still have to provided that much charge.

I think pre-oilers are a great idea, but not worth $500 plus.

Hell, a guy at work has an old dodge without an oil pump at all. It's admittedly got very low bearing loads, but it's still here, after many years.

 

[LarryM]

This point is probably moot by now in this discussion, but the reason that the Canton Racing pre-lubers are used in racing is just in case the G-forces pull the oil away from the pickup in the oil pan, you still have oil pressure - they run in parallel with the mechanical pump.

 

[camss69]

Hey everyone, I'm new around here but this pre-oiler really has me interested. I've got a 2K1 Trans Am that only get's driven maybe twice a month, so it sits a minimum of 2 weeks in between drives, and when it does get driven it's for only a couple hundred miles on a weekend. So it sounds like this pre-oiler would work out really good for my car. I know it gets pretty much dry started for at least the first start of the weekend. How hard would it be to install in my car? Anyone done it on a F-body? Where would my oil pressure sending unit be?

Thanks, Nick