The Fram looks better than expected. 30ppm of Titanium is more than Castrol puts in their non-Euro EDGE products.
PQIA VOAs of PP, Fram and Castrol EDGE 0W20
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The Fram looks better than expected. 30ppm of Titanium is more than Castrol puts in their non-Euro EDGE products.
The Pennzoil Platinum looks skimpy. No B, minimal Mo, and P below API limit with an excuse of possible margin of error. The Noack looks good though.
The Fram looks much better to me than PP. The P is within spec, a good chunk of B, decent amounts of Mo and Ti, and good detergent concentration with a TBN of 8.44. Aside from the ugly Noack, I like it.
The Castrol Edge looks pretty decent aside from the Noack. Funny how it has less Ti than Fram. TBN looks good.
If I had to rank them...
1. Fram
2. Castrol
3. Pennzoil
Though I know it's very expensive, it would be awesome if PQIA (or a company like them) could do Sequence IVA, Sequence III-H, and other live fire, real world testing to show how these oils actually perform.
The Fram looks much better to me than PP. The P is within spec, a good chunk of B, decent amounts of Mo and Ti, and good detergent concentration with a TBN of 8.44. Aside from the ugly Noack, I like it.
The Castrol Edge looks pretty decent aside from the Noack. Funny how it has less Ti than Fram. TBN looks good.
If I had to rank them...
1. Fram
2. Castrol
3. Pennzoil
Though I know it's very expensive, it would be awesome if PQIA (or a company like them) could do Sequence IVA, Sequence III-H, and other live fire, real world testing to show how these oils actually perform.
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Good to see!
I have a decent amount of this FRAM & CarQuest 0W20 in my stash(both from Amalie). Same stuff I assume as I bought both from AAP w/FRAM Titanium filters(bundles).
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@M56959 You could merge this thread with https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pqia-results-for-three-api-sp-0w-20-oils.353344/ instead of locking down the other one.
Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is the most advanced formulation of the three. Given the lower AW additive levels, I assume they are using Alkalythed Naphtalines or something even more advanced in their formulation. They along with Mobil 1 are staying ahead of the curve.
Don't read too much into the higher Boron / Titatinum / Molybdenum levels of the other lubes, their formulations are a bit older. SOPUS / XOM are moving towards more complex organic additive packages.
It'd be interesting to see the NOACK of Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20, as that one is the one and the same oil that's used by Land Rover Jaguar as factory fill for most of their vehicles.
Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 is the most advanced formulation of the three. Given the lower AW additive levels, I assume they are using Alkalythed Naphtalines or something even more advanced in their formulation. They along with Mobil 1 are staying ahead of the curve.
Don't read too much into the higher Boron / Titatinum / Molybdenum levels of the other lubes, their formulations are a bit older. SOPUS / XOM are moving towards more complex organic additive packages.
It'd be interesting to see the NOACK of Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20, as that one is the one and the same oil that's used by Land Rover Jaguar as factory fill for most of their vehicles.
Never liked Pennzoil or Quick Mistake. Always used either Castrol or Valvoline. The last 10 or so years I think Valvoline edges Castrol a little more. Maybe SOPUS has turned it around but, I'm not about to find out.
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I'd love to see the pistons, as just removing the valve covers tells only a small part of the story.
No piston pics as I haven't had to tear it down that far. If the head is that clean I can bet you the cylinders are spotless and probably have good cross hatching. The head is the hottest part of the motor. If you have any sludge/varnish there it's worse in cooler parts of the engine.
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AN won't make up for ZDDP in wear protection. While there are ashless anti-wear additives that can perform on the level of ZDDP, they are not affordable to do so. I highly doubt they're putting those in an API shelf oil. I find it much more likely that they're lowering concentration to an absolute minimum to get around cost and possible pandemic shortages.
The issues associated with higher volatility wouldn't show up under a valve cover as you don't get that high of a temperature there. Any oil vapor that does get there gets sucked out by the PCV system. The issue with a more volatile oil will show up around the pistons and rings where temperatures can easily reach upwards of 450°F. That's where your oil evaporation and coking will occur. I've torn down engines that were clean under the valve covers but had stuck rings with 20% leakdown.
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Was it API SM (or was it SN) when Pennzoil always had triple digit moly?
That was the SM flavor. Gokhan was raving all about it when VOA of it was released
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Man that was back in the day huh!That was the SM flavor. Gokhan was raving all about it when VOA of it was released
Was that gray bottle PP,or was that even further back in time,when PP came in those oil spout shaped bottles, the Pennzane stuff?
I agree that ZDDP does increase friction with increasing concentration when all other things are equal. However, all other things are rarely equal. Just looking at the piston/ring and cylinder interface, a rougher hone, thicker rings, and slower piston speed can allow a threshold where the iron sulfide and polyphosphate tribofilms are thinner than the roughness of the base metal and cause friction to increase. In such cases, a higher concentration of ZDDP, and more reactive secondary alkyl ZDDP, would produce a thicker tribofilm above the surface roughness and decrease friction substantially. In any case, the friction increase from excessive tribofilm thickness is much less than the friction increase from insufficient film thickness for the surface roughness. Therefore I don't feel the risk is worth the reward, especially when the reward is in fractions of 1%.
All of that said, in modern engines with thinner rings and finer hones, this likely isn't a problem. I could see it being an issue on older engines or in engines running slower piston speeds and thicker rings. If I was aiming to reduce friction as much as possible while not sacrificing wear protection, I would personally rather leave the ZDDP concentration in the 750-800 ppm P range and instead switch to a linear chained, primary alkyl ZDDP synergized with an ashless moly-amide. Of course, there's the cost....
I just fixed that for you.
Whatever. I determine a oil’s capability by the certifications and licenses, not by guessing base oil composition. But you can continue to play the guessing game as you wish.
This was the yellow PYB, not PPMan that was back in the day huh!
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And I don't disagree with you. However, when you have multiple ILSAC GF6A lubricants that are all API SP licensed and maybe carry a Dexos Gen 2 or 3 license, how do you compare them? Because they are not all equal. Or how about if we throw in a wildcard like Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20, which is MB229.71 approved, claims ACEA C5, and is API SP and Dexos 1 Gen 2 licensed? It's also the identical lubricant that in Europe is sold as Castrol EDGE 0W-20 C5, where it's also Jaguar / Land Rover approved. How do you compete against that? I mean, surely, based on its face value, you can't. You absolutely can't, and since technically it's got the same ILSAC GF6A classification, it's a fair fight, right? Right!
Except, it's not that simple. You see, this wonderful Castrol EDGE EP 0W-20 is made of Group III base oils, and has PPDs that lower its flashpoint, but more importantly, its main focus when it was designed was fuel-efficient light-duty European Diesel engines, not cold flow. When it reaches about -40C this otherwise excellent lubricant will become solid. Meanwhile, Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 will keep on flowing. Do you know why?
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