PQIA tests seven more oils, 9/19

[RGR]

Originally Posted By: CT8
There seems to be too much difference over the other brands lets call it a mistake until proven different.


That was the solution to the same controversy with PU, and it turned out not to be a mistake. Low live GTL basestocks!!

 

[Lex94]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
All this talk about 10w30 PYB, but isnt PHM 10w30 a lot better?

Higher TBN? I assume at least as good of a NOACK. Still loaded with moly too..


PHM 10w30 was just as smooth as PYB 10w30 in my testing...PHM 10w30 only real benefit is it's 3.4 HTHS compared to PYB 10w30 3.1 HTHS. Shear stability would be key.

The dude at Shell probably figured $80+ oil forever...His brother probably figured the gubmint "workers" at EPA would just sit on their butts until retirement like usual

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: RGR
Originally Posted By: CT8
There seems to be too much difference over the other brands lets call it a mistake until proven different.


That was the solution to the same controversy with PU, and it turned out not to be a mistake. Low live GTL basestocks!!


Don't use logic with antiqueshell. Logic is his fallacy.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
24 billion makes for a nice write off spread over a couple of years.

I suspect that $24 billion would have been nicer as shareholder dividends over that period of time.

 

[Jake777]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Well, I am not running out to buy PYB just yet (If it is the tractor supply $2/qt sale, then yes). The problem for PQIA is the sample size. While PYB is making a habit of low NOACK, I would be weary to say that every bottle out there has the low NOACK (but I am interested in finding out if this is true). It is interesting. PQIA is one of the better sources of info but it can't quite say that PYB will have 4.4 or 4.2% in every bottle. Keep in mind that these tests are more like a spot check designed to expose divergence from a point. You can use it two ways: 1) those that are deviating from spec (looking at you Valvoline), or if you have the manufacturer's claimed targets (ie 13% for a specific weight for a specific product and it comes back 13.1% or 14.9 from PQIA) you can cross compare. Otherwise, we BITOG should start sending in VOA to see if we can replicate the results.

Anyway, I am excited about those results. Very impressive.


What do you mean looking at you Valvoline? Can you explain? I ask because for some reason I don't trust Valvoline but I can't put my finger on it just a hunch....

 

[MolaKule]

A 4.0 cSt GTL base stock has a NOACK by itself of 11.5%, which is why I stated in another, earlier thread, that inclusion of GTL as a base stock is NOT the driving chemistry behind a low NOACK value.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
A 4.0 cSt GTL base stock has a NOACK by itself of 11.5%, which is why I stated in another, earlier thread, that inclusion of GTL as a base stock is NOT the driving chemistry behind a low NOACK value.


Thanks Mola

As I posted earlier in the thread though, the 10cSt PAO that XOM makes has an even lower NOACK and checks all the boxes for 10w-30... How does that fit in here?

 

[bbhero]

So what is the driving reason for the very low volatility?? I am just curious and wanting to understand the rationale behind why the gtl doesn't explain this result. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate all you add on here.

 

[Run]

Great to see the PYB 10w-30 has a low noack. This should help it stand pretty good in a short tripped vehicle.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
A 4.0 cSt GTL base stock has a NOACK by itself of 11.5%, which is why I stated in another, earlier thread, that inclusion of GTL as a base stock is NOT the driving chemistry behind a low NOACK value.


Molakule,
is 10W30 even a grade that you could get to from 4cst GTL ?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
A 4.0 cSt GTL base stock has a NOACK by itself of 11.5%, which is why I stated in another, earlier thread, that inclusion of GTL as a base stock is NOT the driving chemistry behind a low NOACK value.


Molakule,
is 10W30 even a grade that you could get to from 4cst GTL ?


Not by itself.

Recall that a base oil mix of a certain viscosity is composed of a mix of two or more base oils of differing viscosities (and possibily differing API base oil Groups) with a VII to get to the target Viscosity.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
So what is the driving reason for the very low volatility?? I am just curious and wanting to understand the rationale behind why the gtl doesn't explain this result. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate all you add on here.



There are a number of methods of accomplishing this:

1. Inclusion of a small percentage of a high viscosity PAO (NOACK < 3.5%),

2. Inclusion of a small percentage of a high viscosity Ester (NOACK < 3.5%),

3. Inclusion of a small percentage of a special polymer (NOACK < 1.5%),

4. etc.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
A 4.0 cSt GTL base stock has a NOACK by itself of 11.5%, which is why I stated in another, earlier thread, that inclusion of GTL as a base stock is NOT the driving chemistry behind a low NOACK value.

Do you ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall?

 

[bbhero]

Well this makes the picture very clear. Makes it easy to understand why.

Garak I bet molacule is a teacher so he's used to explaining these types of things again and again and again etc.
Just like in my job having to explain to patients that I can't give them 25 mg of IV phenergan and 2 mg of IV Dilaudid together. It would crash their blood pressure to far down. I've had to do that MANY times. But its part of the deal at times.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: Jake777
[/quote]

What do you mean looking at you Valvoline? Can you explain? I ask because for some reason I don't trust Valvoline but I can't put my finger on it just a hunch....


Valvoline is the only "major" brand to have two slip-ups with PQIA. One was their Maxlife ATF (which I use by the way, an excellent product) and the other was their NextGen Oil that exceed the NOACK requirements.

The ATF was just a product that was labeled for an obsolete spec but supposedly was exceeding the requirement according to Valvoline. I think it is a great product but PQIA is correct for calling out that they might not be meeting the same spec as listed on the label.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/ATFdecember2012/valvolinemaxATF.htm


NextGen Advisory: (which should have been a "don't buy" warning but PQIA was being "nice")
http://www.pqiamerica.com/Nov2013/Valvolinenextgen.htm

I think Valvoline is a fine brand (and some of their house brands they make for others tends to be some of the best buys (see Napa). So take it with what you will.

 

[MolaKule]

In the case of any fluid it is in PQIA's charter to point out any "alleged" discrepancies.

Valvoline explained the alleged discrepancy for the ATF to the satisfaction of many in the industry.

AS to NextGen, I think they had a temporary problem in their blending facility. The main problem with NextGen was their price positioning for it.

You should have been around in the late 70's when Standard Oil shipped a bad batch of PIB's to the industry, which resulted in engine sludge. Not even PQIA would have caught this problem, since the oil was to spec on the surface.

Things like this doesn't happen very often anymore with improved testing and QC.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Falken


So they have no qualms about dumping excess GTL stock into yellow bottles to get rid of it


This could be the next huge BITOG banaza! Can we get a date code for that 10w-30 PYB Tom?

I can see it now; BITOGers ripping through the Walmart shelves looking for specific date coded PYB bottles!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Garak I bet molacule is a teacher so he's used to explaining these types of things again and again and again etc.

Mola will survive, too, but he's been through this one a couple times, and I always have to give him a hard time about it.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

...Yes it's the base oil.
Pennzoil is obviously using a 100% GTL base oil...


I for one am not convinced it is 100% GTL base oil.

As I stated earlier, a 4 cSt GTL has a NOACK that averages 11.5%. This data was from INFINEUM, a company that supplies additives for Shell and was the first to get samples of GTL's for additive production.

I would caution BITOGER's not to declare as fact what is in the current PYB 10W30 as any statements at this point are purely speculation.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well this makes the picture very clear. Makes it easy to understand why.

Garak I bet molacule is a teacher so he's used to explaining these types of things again and again and again etc.
Just like in my job having to explain to patients that I can't give them 25 mg of IV phenergan and 2 mg of IV Dilaudid together. It would crash their blood pressure to far down. I've had to do that MANY times. But its part of the deal at times.


I am. Adjunct Prof of Physics and Physical Chemistry, Chair of the Acquisition Group for Donuts and Coffee (CAGDC), Independent (Consulting) Formulator, etc.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Do you ever feel like you're banging your head against a wall?


My wife says the bumps are not from any action she has taken!

Being a nurse, any actions she would or would not have taken would not show up in an autopsy anyway!