PQIA Tests M1 AFE 0W20 and Valvoline AFS 0W20
- Thread starter himemsys
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Both look excellent, thanks.
The M1 is a tad thicker.
Valvoline uses significant amounts of Moly. I'd use either without thought or concern.
The M1 is a tad thicker.
Valvoline uses significant amounts of Moly. I'd use either without thought or concern.
Can't blame it on Blackstone this time.
I enjoyed running M1 AFE in the Fit before. Is it still considered better than usual M1 but not quite on par with EP?
Looking at the MSDS of the AFE, it appears they are mostly GTL base and no longer uses a decent PAO (30%) content; as before on API SN.
What’s the opinion these days on GTL vs PAO?
Note- M1 EP HM oil also has GTL base per their Feb 2022 MSDS.
I’m wonder if regular EP is to follow? The most recent one was Jan 2022 and still showed PAO base.
Funny there would difference between HM and regular EP. Unless the HM is indicating their regular EP is headed that way.
What’s the opinion these days on GTL vs PAO?
Note- M1 EP HM oil also has GTL base per their Feb 2022 MSDS.
I’m wonder if regular EP is to follow? The most recent one was Jan 2022 and still showed PAO base.
Funny there would difference between HM and regular EP. Unless the HM is indicating their regular EP is headed that way.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The HM oils have always been formulated differently, I wouldn't read too much into that.
PAO is really only a luxury we see in this segment with Mobil's products. Shell's whole portfolio is based on GTL, it's an excellent base oil, though isn't quite as strong in oxidation resistance or cold temp performance as PAO, but for most applications, it won't make a difference, we are splitting hairs.
AFE is 50-60% GTL, we have no idea what the rest of the formula is, but PAO isn't called out (which it usually is) so it's a curious one as to what makes up the remainder.
Interesting. PAO content seems to be more a boutique oil find these days.
So, M1 keeps the EP label, but goes with a completely different base stock for the HM flavor.
I guess that part is a little surprising to me. I assumed it was PAO as well. What’s the point of calling it “EP” still? Maybe the GTL just blends better with the extra additives the HM oil calls for.
Might swap back to regular EP!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
EP was originally between M1 and AP, there was never an HM version of AP, just regular M1 and EP. When AP was discontinued, at least with the 0w-20, it looks like they just turned it into EP.Interesting. PAO content seems to be more a boutique oil find these days.
So, M1 keeps the EP label, but goes with a completely different base stock for the HM flavor.
I guess that part is a little surprising to me. I assumed it was PAO as well. What’s the point of calling it “EP” still? Maybe the GTL just blends better with the extra additives the HM oil calls for.
Might swap back to regular EP!
Makes sense.
In your opinion, is this newer GTL base AFE a better, worse or roughly the same product as the former version which had a decent percent of PAO base?
Perhaps the newer API SP requirements are relevant as well to the opinion of “better product”.
Is XOM catching up to Shell on the GTL base production? Last I recall was the marketing Pennzoil had several years ago on the GTL oils and then PurePlus. I can’t say that I recall other brands promoting that.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The base oil selection isn't really relevant to the oil being SN or SP, or at least has VERY little influence, if any. Additive selection and treat rates would be what changed, if they changed. GTL is cheaper than PAO and easier to formulate with, so, if you can reach your performance targets using that, why wouldn't you?
Does this imply that Mobil has higher expectations for EP 0w-20? Perhaps.
Mobil doesn't have a GTL base oil facility, they'd be buying it from Shell, and since Shell has a lot of excess production, they probably get a good deal. On the other hand, if Shell requires PAO for some of their blends, they probably buy it from XOM, same with AN's and Esters. Given that they co-own infineum, I suspect they have a pretty good relationship.
D
Deleted member 89374
The AFE 0W-20 seems to have more Zinc and Phosphorus than EP 0W-20, and considering that it's majority GTL, it leads me to believe that Mobil does not use ANs in AFE 0W-20.
If I were to rank Shell's and Mobil's 0W-20 offerings, they would stack up like this:
- Mobil 1 EP 0W-20
- Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20
- Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20
- Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20
Mobil doesn't use ANs in EP 0W-20 just to balance out PAO but also to increase the effectiveness of the anti-wear additives. Hence, they need to use less Zinc and Phosphorus in EP 0W-20. That also very slightly reduces friction.
It'd be awesome if PQIA would test some of the top-tier offerings like Mobil 1 EP 0W-20, Castrol EDGE EP, Pennzoil Platinum Ultra, Valvoline EP, etc. Each of these is within a few dollars of the next product down the ladder.
Both look excellent choices for 0w20 applications.
I like Ravenol products, and the only distributer, Blauparts, is a great vendor. I can't justify the cost using it in my Optima, but I a few months I plan on selling it and getting a 3.3 l stinger which I plan on doing extensive mods on which I then will use a boutique oil.Ravenol EFE 0W16.
Noack 6.8
HTHS 2.4
Jaw dropping.
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