PP 5w20 or 5w30 for an '09 Accord?

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WOW, some posters here know more than Honda and it's engineers. So pick what want from the manual, ignore what don't like or don't believe. Better yet, just throw out the manual, Honda engineers don't know JACK!

Sooo, tell your friend to make sure he follows all the deception techniques to make it look like he's running the speced 5w20, and go ahead and run 5w30 while it's under warranty.

And the hits just keep on comin from the CAFE Conspiracists.
smirk2.gif
 
Honda builds a good engine, I wouldn't second guess them! Use what the OM says, why complicate things? Besides todays 20 grade oils are great, especially in a car spec'd for it.

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Originally Posted By: sayjac
WOW, some posters here know more than Honda and it's engineers. So pick what want from the manual, ignore what don't like or don't believe. Better yet, just throw out the manual, Honda engineers don't know JACK!

Sooo, tell your friend to make sure he follows all the deception techniques to make it look like he's running the speced 5w20, and go ahead and run 5w30 while it's under warranty.

And the hits just keep on comin from the CAFE Conspiracists.
smirk2.gif



Ah...The sheep. Doesn't bother me, blindly follow what the watered down manual says. Me, I'll use common sense and likely the Honda engineers would agree.
 
conventional 5w20 is more costly to produce than a conventional 5w30, so conventional 5w20 actually sells for a bargain price when on sale (10$ for a jug of YB PZ) i would just split the difference and run 50% conv. 5w20 with 50%synth 5w30. Use PZ make oil, and end up with a superior true semi synthetic, that will work like a robust 5w20 and will not shear out of grade, and have the thin properties we all like. an oil of this composition would probably have a life of 10,000K + miles.
 
Thanks guys. He is going with the 5w20 and after his warranty expires he will probably experiment a little.

Thanks again.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
. . .
Ah...The sheep. Doesn't bother me, blindly follow what the watered down manual says. Me, I'll use common sense and likely the Honda engineers would agree.


OK, now that we're almost a decade down the 20 wt oil road, and the catastrophic epidemic of engine failures has -- never happened --, how does a vague notion of "common sense" act to override the engine maker's specific recommendation. CAFE? That argument carries some weight in the Ford case, but Honda has never had the need to offset massive sales of things like the F-150 and Expedition/Explorer/Excursion.

Now certainly, there are vehicles for which the 20 wt oils are not appropriate (but the same can be said for the 50 wts too). This is true because of inherent characteristics of the engines involved, their oil pumps, "circulatory system," bearing clearances, and so forth. It is most certainly NOT a result of some flaw or weakness in 20 oils.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: StevieC
5w20, the engineers know your engine best... If not then they just waited a ton of money on school!
thumbsup2.gif



I would certainly like to hear what Honda engineers have to say.

What is in the manual is a compromise postion between engineering,marketing and legal.

Approved by the Big Wigs who have to weigh CAFE,CARB, EPA, and BSUSA.



Couldn't have said it better.


Then I'm sure you'd also agree that those folks at Honda who are compromising are: 1) fully aware of their company's reputation as one of the world's best engine makers, 2) aware of the tremendous incalculable value of that reputation, and 3) unwilling to do anything that would compromise that reputation.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
. . .
Ah...The sheep. Doesn't bother me, blindly follow what the watered down manual says. Me, I'll use common sense and likely the Honda engineers would agree.


OK, now that we're almost a decade down the 20 wt oil road, and the catastrophic epidemic of engine failures has -- never happened --, how does a vague notion of "common sense" act to override the engine maker's specific recommendation. CAFE? That argument carries some weight in the Ford case, but Honda has never had the need to offset massive sales of things like the F-150 and Expedition/Explorer/Excursion.

Now certainly, there are vehicles for which the 20 wt oils are not appropriate (but the same can be said for the 50 wts too). This is true because of inherent characteristics of the engines involved, their oil pumps, "circulatory system," bearing clearances, and so forth. It is most certainly NOT a result of some flaw or weakness in 20 oils.


Like I said, nothing wrong with the 20wt. I've never said there was going to be instant engine failure. But I don't believe in the one oil fits all temperatures dumbed down manuals recommendation. There are no downsides to the 30wt in this guy's climate. If my personal car was a lease or I only had plans for 150K then I would use whatever 5w-20 dino I could find. In my hot climate I want more protection that I believe the 30wt provides.
 
I have 10w-30 in my Honda. The Engineers don't have to listen to clacky cold valves on the 20 weight.
The Engineers are not always right about "what's on the filler cap". The time I spent on an RSX Forum, massive consumption and Mobil 1 5w-30 (as specified on the cap) went hand-in-hand. Other oils cleared that right up.
Don't get me started about the failed oil recommendations from Audi/VW, MB, TOYOTA and Chrysler.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I have 10w-30 in my Honda. The Engineers don't have to listen to clacky cold valves on the 20 weight.
The Engineers are not always right about "what's on the filler cap". The time I spent on an RSX Forum, massive consumption and Mobil 1 5w-30 (as specified on the cap) went hand-in-hand. Other oils cleared that right up.
Don't get me started about the failed oil recommendations from Audi/VW, MB, TOYOTA and Chrysler.


Hold on now, the only time I've had to listen to "clacky" valves is when I used too thick an oil that was unable to flow adequately when very cold such that it was unable to pressurize every last nook and cranny of the oil system instantly on start. Surely, a good solid 0w-20 is going to make it to the far reaches of the oil system faster than any 10w-30. This would be especially true where the temps are in the marginal range in which a 10w oil may be starting to solidify, while a 0w oil is still totally liquid.
 
Originally Posted By: jigen
Thanks guys. He is going with the 5w20 and after his warranty expires he will probably experiment a little.

Thanks again.


EXCELLENT PLAN!!!

At someone has some sense NOT to question what the manufacturer calls for during the warranty period and possible loosing their warranty....
 
A thicker oil can quiet lifter/lash adjusters. Sometimes a worn lash adjuster will get lazy on a thinner oil.
 
What does Honda recommend for vehicles they sell in Europe, or other places where 5w20 is just about impossible to find?
My Jeep Patriot states 5w20 in the manual and on the cap, but for the Euro models with the exact same engines they recommend 5w30.
 
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
...

Like I said, nothing wrong with the 20wt. I've never said there was going to be instant engine failure. But I don't believe in the one oil fits all temperatures dumbed down manuals recommendation. There are no downsides to the 30wt in this guy's climate. If my personal car was a lease or I only had plans for 150K then I would use whatever 5w-20 dino I could find. In my hot climate I want more protection that I believe the 30wt provides.



=======================================================


Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I have 10w-30 in my Honda. The Engineers don't have to listen to clacky cold valves on the 20 weight.
The Engineers are not always right about "what's on the filler cap". The time I spent on an RSX Forum, massive consumption and Mobil 1 5w-30 (as specified on the cap) went hand-in-hand. Other oils cleared that right up.
Don't get me started about the failed oil recommendations from Audi/VW, MB, TOYOTA and Chrysler.


And guys, really, I'm not saying that there's anything inherently wrong with 30 wt oils. Perhaps a good double negative is in order here: I see no reason not to use 5w-20 or 0w-20 in an '09 Accord. In the eight-plus years that Honda has been spec-ing 5w-20, I've seen no indication at all that it won't work just fine in these engines, even in roasting hot climates like Texas and Florida.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Originally Posted By: StevieC
5w20, the engineers know your engine best... If not then they just waited a ton of money on school!
thumbsup2.gif



I would certainly like to hear what Honda engineers have to say.

What is in the manual is a compromise postion between engineering,marketing and legal.

Approved by the Big Wigs who have to weigh CAFE,CARB, EPA, and BSUSA.



Couldn't have said it better.


Then I'm sure you'd also agree that those folks at Honda who are compromising are: 1) fully aware of their company's reputation as one of the world's best engine makers, 2) aware of the tremendous incalculable value of that reputation, and 3) unwilling to do anything that would compromise that reputation.



Evidently they did not care about their reputation in regards to building 5 speed automatic transmissions and recommneding 120k ATF changes and NEVER changing ATF filter.

I think all the Big Wigs care about is the experienc of the 1st owner and maybe the second which usually does not pass 120K miles.

If 95% of first owners are happy and trade in their cars with 75K miles or less then Honda is perfectly satisied IMO.

I want to keep my new cars until they reach 300k miles.

I change my ATF fluid in my 03 Accord every 30K miles.
 
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
. . .
Evidently they did not care about their reputation in regards to building 5 speed automatic transmissions and recommneding 120k ATF changes and NEVER changing ATF filter.

I think all the Big Wigs care about is the experienc of the 1st owner and maybe the second which usually does not pass 120K miles.

If 95% of first owners are happy and trade in their cars with 75K miles or less then Honda is perfectly satisied IMO.

I want to keep my new cars until they reach 300k miles.

I change my ATF fluid in my 03 Accord every 30K miles.



Hey, perfection escapes even the most fastidious perfectionists (except for me, of course...). Modern cars are incredibly complex machines, designed and built by fallible humans. Not even the best car company, wherever it hails from, will ever achieve perfection. I never said Honda, Toyota, Ford, or whoever was perfect. Now, as to oil recommendations, again, I've seen no signs in over eight years that Honda or Ford has caused an owner harm with their xw-20 oil recommendations.
 
It does not take a perfect mind to know you should have an ATF filter. After all the problems Honda had with the 6th gen Accord automatics they decided to add a cheapie version of the Magnefine.

It does not take a perfect mind to know you should change it at least every once in a while.Or change the ATF fluid at least every 60K or so.


It also does not take a perfect mind to know you can get "better" proection for your enging with something thicker than xw-20.


By your own admission Honda is not perfect.

Their acceptable failure rate is higher than mine.

One failure is way to high for me. LOL>
 
Let's not be twisting words here Diego. First, no car company is perfect -- that's not an "admission" of any sort, since I never asserted any were perfect. Second, you're comparing apples and oranges. I indicated that I am confident that Honda did their homework before they decided to recommend 5w-20 oil. And they must have, since in over eight years, I've NEVER seen anyone show me a case in which someone lost an engine using the oil Honda recommended. Third, the fact that an imperfect (but still very good) car company may have made a mistake on a transmission design says precisely zero about the merits of the 5w-20 recommendation. We all know there have been Odyssey trans problems, but again, please show me, if you can, a single example of an engine failing from being oiled with 5w-20.

OK, one failure may be too many for you, and if you can't live with imperfection, you need to move to the planet where all the perfect beings live. While you're looking for a good price on a ticket to that place, see if you can find any proof that 5w-20 has killed a Honda. Heck, you should use the stuff exclusively -- it meets your acceptable failure criterion. . .
 
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
. . .
It also does not take a perfect mind to know you can get "better" proection for your enging with something thicker than xw-20.
. . .


Oh, I forgot this little gem. I'm going to have to call you on that. What proof do you have to back up that assertion?

You might start with the 182 pages of our Gasoline UOA section -- a healthy portion of which consist of flawless or near flawless results -- using 20 wt oils. . . LOL.
 
And just in case anyone thinks I'm some sort of cheerleader for 20 wt oils, as distinct from any others, here's a repeat of a post I just made in another thread in this forum (normally we wouldn't do this, but I want to make a clear point here):

Originally Posted By: FROM THAT GC THREAD:

I would hasten to add to my previous comments that I'm no 20 wt Kool-Aid drinker. We have two cars (of three) that are either spec-ed for 20 wt (Camry Hybrid), or back-spec-ed to it (Avalon). Oddly enough, the Prius has it's own TSB that says it's firmly a 5w-30 car (I suspect for dilution issues, but that's another story).

And what do you suppose I'm using at the moment in my 0w-20 Camry hybird? That's right, 12.1 cSt green German Castrol. How can that be, you ask? Well, there is this mysterious comment in the 09 HyCam manual:

Z-TCH-Manual-p2-DLV-v2.jpg


Well now, how'z that for creating about 10x as many questions as it answers??? Anyhow, it's hot here now, and I've still got a good bit of green left, so I decided to try it. I think I will UOA it, and then switch back to PP 0w-20, and compare how the two stack up against one another.


Assuming manufacturer compliance with contemporary standards, there really are no "good" or "bad" oils out there -- just correct and incorrect. One more time: we're now more than EIGHT YEARS since Honda and Ford started spec-ing 5w-20, and the damage is JUST NOT HAPPENING. . .
 
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