PP 5W20 bottom of jug debris

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A jug of PP that I'd bought for a friend of mine for her oil change,which I'd kept the half leftover quart. The debris at the bottom doesn't dissolve or mix when vigorously shaken,but instead breaks up and floats around as solid flakes. I know this comes up quite often,but what the heck are these solid flakes? Does "fallout" form flakes as well as bottom discoloration? If you look closely at the horizontal "ridges" on the bottom of the jug,look at the second ridge and you'll see one of the long pieces coming loose. The very bottom picture is after a shake,and some of the debris has broken loose and is floating around in the oil. These flake formations are totally new to me.
 
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Additive fallout as some have said. Wonder if you could heat this stuff up on stove or hot plate it would dissolve back into oil. ??? shocked2
 
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Originally Posted By: car51
Additive fallout as some have said. Wonder if you could heat this stuff up on stove or hot plate it would dissolve back into oil.
Yeah, and if instead of a stove you use an engine to heat it, does it end up dissolved, resting at the bottom of the pan, or captured by the filter?
 
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The majority of the PP I've used in the last five years has had this "discoloration". I've heard it referred to before as a "by-product of their production cycle"...which I think is correct based on the Pennzoil explanation below as it was specifically related to Platinum: "The detergent additives we use - and which are commonly used across the industry - contain a solid base material to neutralize acids formed in the oil during use. In order to stabilize the solid material in a liquid, a clever piece of chemistry is used....the solid is contained in a Micelle (which surrounds the solid base material with an oil soluble layer). These detergents are referred to as providing over basing. It is common during storage for a light sedimentation to occur as a small amount of the solid can drop out to the bottom of a sample. This is quite normal and harmless at the bottom of the bottles. I hope that this explains the problem to you". "Common during storage" in this case would likely mean all the time or mostly so because in my experience, it's more the norm to have this discoloration, sediment, bits breaking off at the bottom of the jugs. The discolored fixed component doesn't shake back into suspension but there are elements that will.
 
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I've had sediment (or whatever) fall out of every brand of oil I've used. Is this stuff that you want in your engine like EP additives (shake the bottle up) or stuff that you don't want in an engine (leave the stuff settled out). Oil companies in general are a little too secretive about things. I know this is a competitive market, but they are allowed a few too many "Trade Secrets" in my opinion. You shouldn't have to spend money at a lab to find out what's in oil. There should be guaranteed VOAs on every bottle. The general public might not care much, but plenty of people do care.
 
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I have three jugs of PP 5W30. I'm going to save the stuff at the bottom and send it in to Blackstone, specifically asking what the sediment is that settles to the bottom. I wonder if "they" will really tell me what it is. Insert conspiracy theory here. This might take some time to do though. Unless someone beats me to it as I haven't seen it done yet. cheers
 
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This issue isn't only on BITOG...it's on several other automotive forums. This alone would lead me to believe it's more the norm than the exception. Although I will say that I've had a PP jug that didn't seem to have this discoloration / sediment to much degree...so maybe I'll worry more about that.... I can only judge it by their explanation and the fact that I've used PP jugs with this issue many times over the last 5-6 years with no problems.
 

aquariuscsm

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The several month old empty jug of PP on the floorboard of my gf's Mustang has a pocket of jet black silt looking stuff on one bottom corner I noticed the other day,but these large solid flakes that break up and float around are totally new to me.
 
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Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
The majority of the PP I've used in the last five years has had this "discoloration". I've heard it referred to before as a "by-product of their production cycle"...which I think is correct based on the Pennzoil explanation below as it was specifically related to Platinum: "The detergent additives we use - and which are commonly used across the industry - contain a solid base material to neutralize acids formed in the oil during use. In order to stabilize the solid material in a liquid, a clever piece of chemistry is used....the solid is contained in a Micelle (which surrounds the solid base material with an oil soluble layer). These detergents are referred to as providing over basing. It is common during storage for a light sedimentation to occur as a small amount of the solid can drop out to the bottom of a sample. This is quite normal and harmless at the bottom of the bottles. I hope that this explains the problem to you". "Common during storage" in this case would likely mean all the time or mostly so because in my experience, it's more the norm to have this discoloration, sediment, bits breaking off at the bottom of the jugs. The discolored fixed component doesn't shake back into suspension but there are elements that will.
It would be nice if Blackstone would step up and agree to analyze this problem for us? Ship them the whole container........ Respectfully, Pajero!
 

Nick1994

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I bought some Pennzoil Ultra (non natural gas stuff) over 4 years ago. Used some in the Sonata yesterday and it did this even though I shook the bottles. Didn't bother me.
 
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FIXED:
Originally Posted By: dwendt44
Add a couple of ounces of a solvent like BERRYMAN'S B-12 and so if it dissolves. My 2¢
The Berryman's will break it loose faster than SeaFoam and also evaporate out of the oil faster. Regardless of method, I think it belongs in the engine and not in the jug. Do what you have to do to make it happen. My 2cents
 
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I've seen it in every brand of oil at one time or another. If it really bothers you, remember the next time you "plan" on changing your oil to stand the bottle/s upside down against something a few days before you change your oil. Then shake the jugs up before you use them. It helps a lot.
 
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Originally Posted By: car51
Additive fallout as some have said. Wonder if you could heat this stuff up on stove or hot plate it would dissolve back into oil. ??? shocked2
Ding ding ding! Must be some type of organic additive or high molecular weight substance. When it was blended at the facility, it was done so in a heated state to ensure solubility but once the bottles hit the road, they remain relatively "cool" for weeks or months until it's sold and used. Plenty of time for some fallout. It's been my experience that it's extremely hard/impossible to resolubilize at room temperature by just shaking- you need the heat or conversely just pour the fall out in the engine and let nature take it's course. Personally, I'd collect the concentrated additive dregs wink
 
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We need to "riddle" our oil like wineries do. The process (riddling) involves partially rotating bottles lain on their sides and pointed downward. They apply the rotation suddenly to break the sediment off the sides of the bottle and work 'em down to the cork. Sometimes they'll freeze the neck of the bottle and remove the cork (which carries the sediment out) then replace the cork. Vintners can fill the resulting void with brandy depending on the recipe. I personally have no experience with this as the wines I drink are made in sanitized stainless steel tanks using no natural ingredients (like grapes) whatsoever.
 
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Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
It's been my experience that it's extremely hard/impossible to resolubilize at room temperature by just shaking- you need the heat or conversely just pour the fall out in the engine and let nature take it's course. Personally, I'd collect the concentrated additive dregs wink
Set the jug in a big pot of hot water before pouring in the engine. Pre-heat, Shake well, dump in. Done.
 
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