Power Steering Fluid Knowledge Needed

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
23
Location
MO
Started having issues with the PS on my 2008 Caddie CTS. Intermittent power loss, and whining noise started shortly after.

Background - I had changed the PS fluid about 2 years ago...probably 20k miles ago with fresh OEM (AC DELCO) fluid. Looking at the fluid on the stick and in the black reservoir it looks ok but pulling out a sample and putting it into a clear glass it is definitely brown - Why did it turn so fast?? I also have a 2005 Chevy Colorado that I changed out at the same time with the exact same fluid. My son drives the truck so it probably has about 10k miles since the change. I decided to pull a sample out of its PS reservoir and ITS WORSE...It is a deep dark brown!! Is there a chance I got some bad fluid? Is it frying my pump?

Attached pic from left to right....OEM fluid bottle left over after my change - Glass 1 is fresh fluid from that bottle - glass 2 Fluid from my Caddie - Glass 3 Fluid from the Colorado. Is this normal? Would you recommend changing it out? If so, with what fluid? I don't want to put the AC Delco back in if it can't make it even 20k miles!

 
Last edited:
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
You would need 4 qts or more to exchange it that way and it still wouldn't be 100%, the color would be tainted by the old fluid. Return line off is the only way to get it anywhere near 100%.
 
What condition was the 'original' fluid you removed ? ? ?

As Trav posted, you are contaminating the new fluid with the old.
If you can't remove a Hose, then do more partial exchanges (turkey baster) till better looking.

I myself do the turkey baster method but mine has always had a red color (trans fluid) to it.
I do this every 2-3 years / 24,000 miles.
I remove 8 Oz each time and use (1) Qt.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trav
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
You would need 4 qts or more to exchange it that way and it still wouldn't be 100%, the color would be tainted by the old fluid. Return line off is the only way to get it anywhere near 100%.


I agree with all of the above.

What I do...
-Empty the reservoir and detach the return line.
-Connect a clear vinyl hose to the return line and have it empty into a container.
-Fill reservoir with new fluid.
-Jack up the front so the wheels are off the ground.
-Have a helper turn the steering wheel fully in each direction as you watch the color of the fluid leaving the return line. (you don't need to start engine)
-Keep an eye of fluid level in reservoir and repeat the process until the fluid leaving the return line is clean.
 
I had an Aerostar with some pretty bad looking PSF. As it turns out the seal on the cap for the PS pump wasn't doing it's job, in heavy rain water was mixing in with the PSF. I replaced the cap and flushed out the system a few times over a period of about a month to get it nice and clean. I drove another 100K miles w/o any PS issues.
 
Thanks all for the quick responses...yes I did the turkey baster method. I bought a lot of fluid and kept emptying and refilling until it ran clear. My caddie had 70k when I changed it the 1st time. My recollection was that it was just a slight tint of brown. The Colorado had some red stuff in it...GM is clear so I kept at that one until it ran clear.

So this time around I will take off the return line and do it right. Question now is what fluid do you recommend. I would rather not wait for the OEM in the mail, nor do I want to get taken by the dealership. Is there aftermarket available at chain auto parts stores (Oriliey, Autozone, Advanced) that is good fluid that might clear up the whining noise and function well in the CTS?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trav
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
....


For a one-time change, I agree. The secret with the TBM(turkey baster method) is to repeat every 5000 miles or so until the fluid you take out is clean. Since you're only replacing a percentage of the volume each time there will still be contaminated fluid in the system....

I've done this on several older vehicles and it works just fine - just have to repeat several times.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Trav
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
....


For a one-time change, I agree. The secret with the TBM(turkey baster method) is to repeat every 5000 miles or so until the fluid you take out is clean. Since you're only replacing a percentage of the volume each time there will still be contaminated fluid in the system....

I've done this on several older vehicles and it works just fine - just have to repeat several times.



I did the turkey baster method on my truck at like the 60,000 mile mark I think and the fluid didn't look much different than the new stuff I put back in. Still was red and looked good.
 
Looking at the fluid on the stick and in the black reservoir it looks ok but pulling out a sample and putting it into a clear glass it is definitely brown - Why did it turn so fast??

Because when you look at the dipstick the oil layer is very thin, thus easier to see through. When you put it in a clear jar you're looking through a thicker amount of fluid. Have you ever wondered why the oil on the dipstick of your car looks clean for the most part, but then it comes out black when you drain it out? Same thing.
 
There is also Maxlife P/S fluid.

The Maxlife ATF is good for its price, I am sure the P/S fluid version is probably good economical choice also.

I would do the complete line flush instead of just TBM.
 
Both Glass 2 and 3 oils looks brownish and highly oxidised, thus not normal and require immediate replacement.
Is there water separation in Glass 2?
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
You would need 4 qts or more to exchange it that way and it still wouldn't be 100%, the color would be tainted by the old fluid. Return line off is the only way to get it anywhere near 100%.


I used to do baster method but its so easy to just do the return line and replace it all with fresh fluid once and you are good for a couple years at least.
 
I purchased a a fluid extractor made by Mityivac several years ago and wished I had done that years ago. Very well made suction gun that will remove all the PS fluid from the reservoir in one try. I run a quart of Valvoline through the system once a year and the fluid hardly changes color over the course of a year. This extractor will also suction fluid from the AT using a longer tube. Cost is around $28.00. Replacement parts are available but will probably not be needed with a little PM.
 
My Canyon's fluid got pretty dark - put an inline filter in and did not see much change. After having a leak in the same filter type on transmission line - took it off and still use this splice to take out about two bottles equivalent twice a year.
It is looking better - but will do again this Fall ...
 
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: Trav
How are you changing it? The turkey baster method is about as useful as a suitcase with no handle so if that's the way you did it its no surprise at all.
....


For a one-time change, I agree. The secret with the TBM(turkey baster method) is to repeat every 5000 miles or so until the fluid you take out is clean. Since you're only replacing a percentage of the volume each time there will still be contaminated fluid in the system....

I've done this on several older vehicles and it works just fine - just have to repeat several times.
I had an old Taurus with unknown past history and very dark PS fluid. I did a complete drain and fill with Amsoil Universal ATX fluid. In a week the fluid was as bad as before. I then bought a gallon of cheap auto trans fluid from WalMart and did the turkey baster method everytime the fluid got dark. I would check the fluid by putting a drop on a white paper towel, you can see the dirt drop out in rings. So I went two days, a week, a month, two months and it started staying clean. Then I dumped it all and from then on did the turkey baster method once a year. The fluid never got dark again.

I assumed the dirt was coated all the internal parts and the new fluid slowly cleaned them off.
 
WOW! I am overwhelmed by the responses here - thanks everyone. I use my model specific car forums quite a bit and rarely get so many relevant and constructive responses in a week!

Regarding the water separation in glass 2 question - That fluid definitely had a cloudy characteristic. There wasn't water separation I could distinctly see - fluid was a consistent cloudy brown. That was out of my CTS so I would really like to understand what is going on with that one...does cloudy symptom lead to any conclusions as to what my problem is? The darker fluid from the Colorado did not seem to have the cloudy characteristic.

So next steps - I plan to get my hands on some Valvoline PS fluid and pull the return hose for a thorough change. I'm hoping this saves my PS pump in the CTS. The Colorado will get the same treatment. If I could get Amsoil at retail I would but I need to get the car back on the road!
 
Quote:
That was out of my CTS so I would really like to understand what is going on with that one...does cloudy symptom lead to any conclusions as to what my problem is?



Looks like oxidized fluid with moisture to me.

Check the pump and the hoses to and from the pump and see if there is any porosity in the hoses.

If the PS pump or lines are near hot spots in the engine compartment the fluid will oxidize quicker.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: jcbcts
Regarding the water separation in glass 2 question - That fluid definitely had a cloudy characteristic. There wasn't water separation I could distinctly see - fluid was a consistent cloudy brown. That was out of my CTS so I would really like to understand what is going on with that one...does cloudy symptom lead to any conclusions as to what my problem is? The darker fluid from the Colorado did not seem to have the cloudy characteristic.

Broadly there are basically 3 stages of water contamination in lubricants progressing from :

a) initiating stage of dissolved water contamination - where water contamination is well below its saturation limit of say, 3000(0.3%) to 8000 ppm. No cloudiness of oil occurs.
As increasing level of water contamination occurs beyond its saturation limit, then it progresses to next stage of .....

b) intermediate stage of emulsion contamination - where the lubricants appears milky or cloudy , as have had happened to your CTS ps fluids in Glass 2.
Further increase in water contamination beyond say, 3 to 5% shall lead to .....

c) advanced stage of Free Water contamination -where free natural water separates away from 2nd stage emulsion.

It occurs to me you have a much more serious problem in CTS than Colorado, and please do whatever it takes to eliminate the problem of water ingression into CTS power steering system.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3955288/Re:_Water_in_transmission_oil#Post3955288

http://www.lelubricants.com/lit/news/White Papers/water_contamination.pdf
 
Zeng, thank you...it is definitely cloudy, but I don't know how I would be getting water into the system. There were no signs of leaks or breaches. Fluid level has been constant. I would have never suspected a problem until the whine suddenly showed up in my PS pump. I have changed out the fluid, but I don't think my pump has been saved...the whine is still present. I will give it a couple of days and then order a new pump.

Any ideas on how water is contaminating my system. I don't think there is any contact with the cooling system.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top