Portrait Of A Broken Automotive Industry

[gman2304]

Not GM, not FCA, and definitively not Ford.

My 2005 Chevy Avalanche was built in Mexico, my sons 2013 Toyota Tundra was built in Texas…..

 

[JeffKeryk]

Remind me. How many union workers does Tesla employ?

Tesla is not union. Maybe you knew that?
Tesla has over 110K employees with an average salary of $108K.
The Fremont plant, has 22K and is always hiring. It is the most productive plant in America. NUMMI had close to 9K employees at its peak.
Once Giga Austin ramps, it will be bigger than Fremont.

While other car manufacturers continue to build offshore and import, it is great to have an American company build the most advanced factories right here. New Mustang Mach-E? Made in Mexico.

 

[97prizm]

Part of the issue is the EPA and CARB certification. Elio could have had a product in customer hands by now. Mr. Elio decided to build a three-cylinder engine from the ground up, instead of use off the shelf Ford, Mini, or GM engines. From what I've read it's close to 2 million dollars to certify an engine now. I'm not sure ev's will change certification. Crash certification is a million plus dollars now. The only reason that Koenigsegg was able to sell in the USA was by making his vehicles modular, or essentially a front middle and rear section. I'm not sure if ev's will fix this issue.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Being 78 years old, I really don't give a rats. LOL

 

[grampi]

Right because consumers have been willing to finance that long since it enabled them to buy what they wanted rather than what they needed.

People have been buying more than they can afford for years...

 

[grampi]

Not for me.

Me either, then again, I'm not buying vehicles I can't afford...

 

[JohnnyG]

0.

Remind me - which manufacturers ran to Mexico to avoid paying Union wages or Americans ?

Or China? Or anywhere for cheaper labor?

 

[grampi]

Sales dictates what type of vehicles are built and sold. If EVs were popular, there wouldn't be so many gov incentives on them. Auto makers who have already said they won't be producing any more ICE vehicles after a certain date will be eating their words when their sales numbers dwindle...

 

[UncleDave]

Or China? Or anywhere for cheaper labor?

There is difference between a factory in Europe selling to EU, One in China selling to Chinese - and one in Mexico importing back to the US.

How many otherwise good jobs in the US have ended up in Mexico that should have stayed in the US?
Why did they leave? They will tell you the Unions pushed them away.

 

[JohnnyG]

There is difference between a factory in Europe selling to EU, One in China selling to Chinese - and one in Mexico importing back to the US.

How many otherwise good jobs in the US have ended up in Mexico that should have stayed in the US?
Why did they leave? They will tell you the Unions pushed them away.

I don't see a huge difference. When the steel industry was killed off in the US, a lot of manufacturing left with it. The US could just as well be making those products and exporting them.
The root cause goes much deeper than just labor cost, but it is a major factor.

 

[jstert]

car guys don’t run car makers, and drivers don’t drive, anymore.

i bet that most mba whiz kids running car makers have never changed motor oil.

drivers buy cars to be displayed, nannied and entertained. just look at most utube reviews, they are all about styling and “infotainment.” all these current-day, must-have essentials (/s) add complexity and expense. $60,000+ trucks as daily drivers?

being “green” is heavily about virtue signaling. like every other decent idea that starts as a small political nudge in a good direction, being green has turned into a monster. why rail against legislated mpg when we elected the legislators?

i bet that my absolute base (crank windows, no nannies) 2014 toyota yaris, with its n.a. non-turbo 1.5 engine & 4sp at, has a smaller environmental footprint, when considering raw materials, manufacture, maintenance, repair, ownership, than any e.v. or even hybrid. i know that my tossable yaris is more fun.

cue the curmudgeon replies in 3, 2, 1…but shooting at the messenger is half the problem.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Sales dictates what type of vehicles are built and sold. If EVs were popular, there wouldn't be so many gov incentives on them. Auto makers who have already said they won't be producing any more ICE vehicles after a certain date will be eating their words when their sales numbers dwindle...

Nope, Joke is on us - EV rebates were renewed for 10 years, with no manufacturer cap.

Its got nothing to do with supply and demand. Its got to do with campaign contributions.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Broken industry? Could be, at least in ways. Changing industry? Looks like it to me.

 

[eljefino]

You're wrong. Your kids are starving, you need to go to work. You need to go to work, you need a car. You need to borrow money because anything is priced out of reach. It's priced out of reach just like a home is.

If this were true the Mitsubishi Mirage and Chevy Spark would be the number 1 & 2 sellers. People are by their nature gluttons and prefer to bite off more than they can chew.

Cars are not homes-- cars depreciate, and there's a car for every budget. If you're not handy, there's a youtube video for every repair. No excuses-- people want cars that someone else has made ready to drive. Same as they want others to "do it for me" whether it's framing a house or making a cup of coffee.

 

[Rod Knock]

If this were true the Mitsubishi Mirage and Chevy Spark would be the number 1 & 2 sellers. People are by their nature gluttons and prefer to bite off more than they can chew.

My brother worked at a multi-car dealer for a few years and the Mirage is a huge POS, it always has been. I'll take the spark any day over the Mirage if those were my only two options.

I wish it was 2006 again when I got my brand new Mazda 6 with 5 speed manual, 2.3L engine, power windows, central door lock, remote, and AC for $14,900 OTD. God, I miss that car. Then in 2007 I got a Hyundai Sonata 2.4L, 5 Speed, power windows, central lock, remote, AC, for $12,500 OTD. I would still buy the same type of vehicle for the same money today if they still made them the same way.

Then in 2020 my brother bought a 2020 Hyundai Sonata SE (basic model, 8 speed auto) for $19,000 + Tax + Tags + Fees. A couple of days ago I was at the dealer to do the annual inspection on it and the same car, with identical equipment (bare bones) was $26,900 and someone bought it. Maybe I'm missing something, but where are the $7,900 worth of improvements?

 

[Trav]

Broken industry? Could be, at least in ways. Changing industry? Looks like it to me.

There is a big difference in a changing industry and one that is being driven to the brink of extinction by a pipe dream agenda.
Examples of changing industry would be the progression to mp3 from cd's and cassette tapes, 8 tracks and reel to reel and records, flat screen tv's, etc. No government intervention with a hand outs were necessary for people to make the switch. With EV's people are asleep at the switch, when they wake up from this pub crawl on a tab and the tab has to paid they will be shocked beyond belief.

 

[OVERKILL]

We as consumers seem to insist on a lot of things in a new car: considerable size, technology like Apple CarPlay, lcd screens (the bigger the better), adaptive cruise control, lake keep assist, auto braking, and the list goes on and on. There were basic and inexpensive new cars available, but they were rejected by buyers. Add in government mandates for fuel economy that adds complexity and cost and it’s no wonder new cars are expensive. And, of course, these costs are also reflected in the used car market.

Basic cars are still abundant in the rest of the world so if we were willing to buy them, they’d be available.

Here’s an idea: let’s have the government start a car company to address this problem and weed out the “greed”. That’s a sure winner.

All that tech is cheap though. A lot of "entry level" cars have most of it. Thing is, demand for even those entry level cars is low, because people want "more", and will finance the heck out of it to get it, but then complain about the cost.

The government owned GM there for a while

Last time a government started a car company, it produced the "bug".

 

[Vil_Riker]

This will be our future not too far from now:

View attachment 128648

No, we have chosen to stay at home and have things delivered to us. We will likely see obesity rates go up, more behavioral issues like depression, and increase in suicides and other types of excess death.

 

[Rod Knock]

No, we have chosen to stay at home and have things delivered to us. We will likely see obesity rates go up, more behavioral issues like depression, and increase in suicides and other types of excess death.

Jesus, I thought I was cynical and had a dry/sarcastic/sometimes dark sense of humor. You beat me, fair and square. 🥺

But you're also right, because laziness and depression go hand-in-hand and feed each other.

 

[Kurtatron]

If this were true the Mitsubishi Mirage and Chevy Spark would be the number 1 & 2 sellers. People are by their nature gluttons and prefer to bite off more than they can chew.

Cars are not homes-- cars depreciate, and there's a car for every budget. If you're not handy, there's a youtube video for every repair. No excuses-- people want cars that someone else has made ready to drive. Same as they want others to "do it for me" whether it's framing a house or making a cup of coffee.

I agree with this. I believe the buying masses deserve a lot of the blame. The lack of mirage sales cannot be attributed to savvy understanding of reliable brands and longevity. To think most people purchase with long term reliability as a top priority is a silly thing to believe.